Will a bike engined hillclimb car ever win the British Hillclimb Championship?

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by DaveK

I'll have to start telling everybody my engine has 270 bhp now

Dave

Dave, try telling them 267bhp, a far more believable figure!

[webbo]

Originally Posted by DaveK

Very interesting power figures

There 1585cc engine gives 35 bhp and 48 lb/ft torque more than my engine measured on the dyno , yet the speed trap figures for cars with these engine fitted are the same as mine at harewood .

I'll have to start telling everybody my engine has 270 bhp now

Dave

Unless you are best mates with an engine builder.........i'm convinced you get told what you want to hear, and not the true figure.

Then there is also the fact that different dyno's give different figures !!

[DaveK]

Originally Posted by webbo

Unless you are best mates with an engine builder.........i'm convinced you get told what you want to hear, and not the true figure.

Then there is also the fact that different dyno's give different figures !!

You didn't really believe Tom when he said you had 300 bhp then

Dave

[webbo]

Originally Posted by DaveK

You didn't really believe Tom when he said you had 300 bhp then

Dave

302 actually !

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by webbo

302 actually !

Is that BHP or CU IN?

[Dennis.Doyle]

I guess 235 is a bit easier to comprehend, especially as they are using revs very similar to 1600 car-based engines. Dunno how accurate this is, but 225 was claimed for the later Atlantic BDAs:

http://www.race-cars.com/utility/coswrthr.htm#BDA

but that was 30 years ago

[Jeff 8]

Originally Posted by blackx

http://www.powertecracing.com/index.php


Makes for interesting reading

I find it interesting that bhp is measured at the crank and with ram air.
I thought 210 from a 1000 was good as world sidecar guys get 200 but that is at the wheel.

Jeff

[blackx]

Originally Posted by Jeff 8

I find it interesting that bhp is measured at the crank and with ram air.
I thought 210 from a 1000 was good as world sidecar guys get 200 but that is at the wheel.

Jeff

If your quoting bike figures then look at MotoGP...

240bhp from less than 1000cc

[bentimingstrut]

Wow I didnt think that my post would have generated such interest. Having driven motorbike and car type powered cars at most of the uk hills I have to say that there does still seem to be a lot of if,s and buts. That is what I love about this sport. Even from hillclimb cars dating back 100 plus years this question still remains unanswered. (Having recently watched Dave K young Robert K,s cars pull away from the start line at Prescott I would swear they where making 650bhp) lol

[hillsprint77]

The last time I was in the Run Off in the Jedi, (Doune Sept 02 I think) I actually had the best 64 ft time, if I recall correctly. So yes the bike cars are quick off the line, it's probably in the susequent 64 ft that the V8s start to claw it back and then start to pull ahead.

Mind you I still think the most impressive thing off the line was the full house 3.8 6R4s, and the best sounding But that's probably worth a seperate thread on its own !!

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by hillsprint77

The last time I was in the Run Off in the Jedi, (Doune Sept 02 I think) I actually had the best 64 ft time, if I recall correctly. So yes the bike cars are quick off the line, it's probably in the susequent 64 ft that the V8s start to claw it back and then start to pull ahead.

Mind you I still think the most impressive thing off the line was the full house 3.8 6R4s, and the best sounding But that's probably worth a seperate thread on its own !!

You also had less weight to carry!

[blackx]

Originally Posted by hillsprint77

Mind you I still think the most impressive thing off the line was the full house 3.8 6R4s, and the best sounding But that's probably worth a seperate thread on its own !!

Or a certain Audi S1 that caused the timekeepers to measure the first 64ft to make sure it was actually 64ft....

[DaveK]

Or Nic Mann's Sports libre car

[blackx]

Originally Posted by DaveK

Or Nic Mann's Sports libre car

While its most certainly quick its not as spectacular as the 6R4 or the Quattro IMHO anyway.

[DJ Racecars]

With said "barn door" style wings removed the performance of hill climb cars is particularly impressive. In pre season testing we took the above supercharged car (360bhp @ wheels) to the car to a 1/4 mile event and ran minus the wings.

The standing 1/4 was covered in 9.8secs with a terminal speed of 138mph (max speed of car with the gear ratio fitted).

We knew the car was fast but even we were shocked at how fast, especially as the car was still running set up for a circuit and didn't even have its nose cone fitted (the front bulkhead isn't exactly a very aerodynamic shape!) We'd like to go back again, but set the car up for the event, purely to see what it would be capable of.

[DaveK]

IIRC didn't Cookie's force run 10.1 @133 @Brighton speed trials

Dave

[Steve Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by DJ Racecars

With said "barn door" style wings removed the performance of hill climb cars is particularly impressive. In pre season testing we took the above supercharged car (360bhp @ wheels) to the car to a 1/4 mile event and ran minus the wings.

The standing 1/4 was covered in 9.8secs with a terminal speed of 138mph (max speed of car with the gear ratio fitted).

We knew the car was fast but even we were shocked at how fast, especially as the car was still running set up for a circuit and didn't even have its nose cone fitted (the front bulkhead isn't exactly a very aerodynamic shape!) We'd like to go back again, but set the car up for the event, purely to see what it would be capable of.

Wallace and the car were very impressive at Knockhill especially in the run-off! I thought his line at the hairpin was excellent, not necessarily the fastest in but boy did the Firehawk fly up Stewart Straight!

[wight jr]

1

[wight jr]

Its been interesting reading some of these power figures that these engines are said to be putting out, my old MP 62 had around 250bhp as a 1600 and was driveable but this was a car that weighed about the same as my Gould that replaced it. I was surprised that looking at the DJ power to weight ratio, would mean the car would weigh 370kgs, surely not! Its nice knowing the power of a engine, Mine is not long off the dyno 660bhp @14000 max torque252lbft at 11500 and and that stays about the same to its max. we are running 15000 max rpm and projecting the graph it would have around 700+, It comes on strong @ 8000 which sounds high but 7000rpm of a rev range is realy quite good. The car weighs 420kg all up ( i weight 67kg) but as i have said before, its the clock that matters. Incidentaly i have the fastest unofficial Shelsley finish line speed trap but cant remember what it was, 149 i think but it was early in the year when i did not have a lot of traction. its on youtube and it left 2 big blacks just after the last corner, and a big brown 1 for me stopping it at the top.

[DJ Racecars]

All in weight of Wallaces car is just over 330kg, I don't see the point of quoting "dry weights".

And the power figures are the more relevant @ the wheels figures.

The engines putting out 172lb/ft of torque and due to the nature of a supercharged engine the power delivery is very smooth and linear (one of the main reasons we decided against building a turbo charged car as had been our original brief for the Gregory's car).

We'd like to do another engine running some from of charge cooling either with an intercooler or by using methanol fuel, however in the case of Wallaces engine we were more than happy with the power we had and didn't want the weight penalty of running a intercooler.

[wight jr]

[QUOTE=DJ Racecars]All in weight of Wallaces car is just over 330kg, I don't see the point of quoting "dry weights".

Same here, there are some people that forget to fit some body work or nose cone when they are giving there weights, or stick on there wets. I must not have worked out your weight correctly when looking at your bhp per ton you quote.

[rescue dude]

[QUOTE=wight jr]

Originally Posted by DJ Racecars

All in weight of Wallaces car is just over 330kg, I don't see the point of quoting "dry weights".

Same here, there are some people that forget to fit some body work or nose cone when they are giving there weights, or stick on there wets.

Are wets lighter than slicks?

[wight jr]

[QUOTE=rescue dude]

Originally Posted by wight jr

Are wets lighter than slicks?

Rubber is heavy, and wets don`t have as much

[DaveK]

Originally Posted by wight jr

( i weight 67kg) :

Blimey graeme, have you put weight on then

[wight jr]

Need a hair cut