1988 Dunlop RAC British Touring Car Championship - Discussion & Results

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by bigears

You are correct, it said on the entry list from the 1988 BSP programme saying that Win Percy is there but then I didn't update my 1988 BSP Excel file saying that Ratzenberger drove the car.

Still fascinating news as Win raced or tested just about every possible Group A car of the era, but this is the first time I have seen his name linked to a BMW M3.

Jesper

[bigears]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Still fascinating news as Win raced or tested just about every possible Group A car of the era, but this is the first time I have seen his name linked to a BMW M3.

Jesper

Who had the no.44 earlier in the season? Also it said on the entry list that Win Percy was entering his own(?) Schitzer tuned BMW M3 but then Alan Minshaw took the number and put Ratzenberger in the Demon Tweeks BMW M3.

Would it be the same car? But the Minshaw BMW was also Schitzer tuned as well.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by bigears

Who had the no.44 earlier in the season? Also it said on the entry list that Win Percy was entering his own(?) Schitzer tuned BMW M3 but then Alan Minshaw took the number and put Ratzenberger in the Demon Tweeks BMW M3.

Would it be the same car? But the Minshaw BMW was also Schitzer tuned as well.

Alan Minshaw had a few races in his #44 Demon Tweeks BMW M3 of 1987Prodrive origin. Roland Ratzenberger was the fastest and most prolific driver of the car, but Chris Hodgetts had a go too.
A Schnitzer car for the BTCC would have been something.

Jesper

[KA]

A Schnitzer M3 would certainly have made life interesting- and I'm sure Andy Rouse might have welcomed it's presence given the potential it had to make Sytner's life more complicated in the same way that the visiting Eggenberger RS500 had taken points away from Andy...

I have to admit Win Percy wouldn't have been the obvious driver I'd have associated with such a venture, given his Nissan contract that season- and I can't recall the last time he drove a BMW before '88...

An appearance in the Demon Tweeks car seems more probable- Minshaw aimed pretty high in the calibre of driver he put in the car after he stepped down from the drive himself following the Oulton shunt- a BMW-contracted driver in Ratzenberger, and a 2xBTCC Champ in Hodgetts, and Win Percy would have certainly fitted that trend- Alan certainly didn't seem to be in the business of hiring the car out to club racers looking for a drive at a high-profile meeting...

Minshaw's car was ex-Prodrive, rather than Schnitzer, although apparently it was rebuilt after the Oulton shunt, with a new shell from Schnitzer, according to what's been posted in the M3 thread. Might this have caused some confusion in the press over the car's origins- especially if Alan had updated the car during the season using parts from the same source...?

[bigears]

Did Minshaw receive any outside support with his ex-Prodrive/Schnitzer shelled and tuned BMW M3?

Would it be a conflict of interest between Prodrive and Schnitzer?

[KA]

Originally Posted by bigears

Did Minshaw receive any outside support with his ex-Prodrive/Schnitzer shelled and tuned BMW M3?

Would it be a conflict of interest between Prodrive and Schnitzer?

The main conflict of interest from Schnitzer getting too closely involved with anyone's BTCC campaign is that as an official BMW factory-backed team, they'd be risking interfering with the BMW GB-backed Prodrive team's championhip hopes....Arguably, Ford's failure to avoid a similar situation (Eggenberger's BTCC visits and Rouse's TT win) contributed to both championships, BTCC and ETCC going BMW's way....

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by KA

The main conflict of interest from Schnitzer getting too closely involved with anyone's BTCC campaign is that as an official BMW factory-backed team, they'd be risking interfering with the BMW GB-backed Prodrive team's championhip hopes....Arguably, Ford's failure to avoid a similar situation (Eggenberger's BTCC visits and Rouse's TT win) contributed to both championships, BTCC and ETCC going BMW's way....

That's true KA, but in the Ford situation, Rouse wasn't an official Ford Works Team, so they couldn't be told to let Eggenberger win the TT. (Probably then a spiteful reaction to send Eggenberger cars to the BTCC and take points away from Rouse. This is the sort of problem you get when Manufacturers become involved with championships that also include very capable non-works teams...)

[Jesper OH]

From what I know, Andy Rouse received support from Ford GB for 1988 and perhaps in 1989 too. Robb Gravett mentioned that his' and Mike Smith's Trakstar team didn't receive any support from Ford by 1989 as they allready supported Andy Rouse.

Jesper

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bigears

Did Minshaw receive any outside support with his ex-Prodrive/Schnitzer shelled and tuned BMW M3?

Would it be a conflict of interest between Prodrive and Schnitzer?

Further to KA's, Jesper's and VIVA's quite correct thoughts, I also understood it that Minshaw faced some difficulty in obtaining certain bits from Prodrive (the cars previous owners and builder...) once his car started to become a thorn in the side of the works cars in the hands of a previous Munich contracted driver; Ratzenberger.....

This probably explains, if indeed it was the case, why he needed to source bits from Germany direct. The car also became rather less of a pain to Sytner as the saeason drew to a close. I doubt that would have been Roland's fault but perhaps some pressure was asserted on Minshaw from somewhere with the title at stake.

The David Sears/Maguire car then became a rather late, and although quick enough, unsuccesssful M3 ally to Rouse's campaign.

[davyboy]

A nice piece of footage of the wet Oulton Park round that's just been posted on youTube.

Oulton Park BTCC round.

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by davyboy

A nice piece of footage of the wet Oulton Park round that's just been posted on youTube.

Oulton Park BTCC round.

Excellent link, as there seems to be a fair few other 1988 related videos.

Jesper

[KA]

Originally Posted by davyboy

A nice piece of footage of the wet Oulton Park round that's just been posted on youTube.

Oulton Park BTCC round.

A few things I've spotted in that so far...

Firstly, we can confirm the race number for the Kevin Eaton MIL/East Midlands Transport Corolla as #69 (seen clearly at 4:12 and 4:19)

At the beginning, the Bob Sands RS500 is running slowly, right at the back of the pack, obviously affected already by the gearbox problem that caused retirement after 1 lap

In the result we don't have a reason for Pete Hall's retirement after 4 laps- looking at the video, he has a spin right in front of the camera (at 2:27) , pulls off onto the grass (accompanied by James Kaye in the Demon Tweeks Golf). Once they've sorted out avoiding each other on the grass, Kaye pulls back onto the track and resumes pretty quickly, while Hall rejoins the circuit and drives off very slowly hugging the RH side of the track- and doesn't appear again. So did something break causing the original spin, or did he damage the Sierra going off the track?

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Fastest laps - weather was drizzly for the race, so times were slower than qualifying
Class A - Bristow 1m45.91s
Class B - Sytner 1m49.09s
Class C - Kaye 1m57.68s
Class D - Dowsett 1m53.93s

Race had originally been scheduled for 16 laps, then upped to 20. Eventually ran over 17 (47.07miles), as William said, because of the Minshaw crash. There was a bit of contention about that "accident".

Grid (3-2-3) - I would assume that pole at Oulton was on the right rather than the the left
3 - Bristow, 2 - Mahony, 1 - Rouse (A pole - 1m41.67)
5 - P Hall, 4 - Goode
8 Sands, 7 G Hall, 6 - Sytner (B pole - 1m44.90s),
10 - ?, 9 Newman ,
13 Minshaw, 12 Harvey, 11 Jones
15 O'Brien 14 Hodgetts,
18 Smith 17 Hathaway, 16 Buxtorf,
20 Hales, 19 Dowsett (D pole 1m50.39s)
23 Eaton, 22 Kimber-Smith, 21 Wallis
25 Kaye, 24 Jeffrey (C pole 1m56.11s)
26 Wiffen



James Weaver deputised for Smitty in testing and a practice session, due to Mike's broadcasting commitments - this might account for the missing number 10 slot on the grid, which could shift the rest of the grid around. Maybe there's more info on the video? I have it, but don't have a VHS player any more!

Other info - The two Golfs are both ex-Tarmac rally cars. Mike O'Brien was still in the VL Commodore as the evoultion engine hadn't turned up from Australia. Andy Rouse won AT Oulton on Friday, and then also won the first round of the French championship at Nogaro. Pete Hall retired, both from the race, and from racing due to work pressures.

[davyboy]

Interesting to see [and hear] the gorgeous 635CSi of Peter Buxtorf. Was he Swiss and I wonder is this the same guy here ?

[KA]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Excellent link, as there seems to be a fair few other 1988 related videos.

Jesper

Great stuff- the Rouse v Soper duel from Brands (Round 8) is up as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkfLQ...eature=related

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Interesting to see [and hear] the gorgeous 635CSi of Peter Buxtorf. Was he Swiss and I wonder is this the same guy here ?

Peter Buxtorf was Swiss as far as I remember, and that could be hin in your link. (I am also sure that he looked like that!)

[KA]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Peter Buxtorf was Swiss as far as I remember, and that could be hin in your link. (I am also sure that he looked like that!)

Yes, I thought he was Swiss as well- the 1988 Silverstone TT entry list certainly gives his nationality as Swiss (#42, sharing the 635 with Colin Blower, but DNQ)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/cove...988-09-04e.jpg

[sonarbell]

Its nice to see the videos are proving usefull

[Alfie72]

Good to hear the sound of the Commodore again - seems such a long time ago. Hey ho!

[KA]

Some background on the Tom Bell/Ray MacDowall ECM RS500, from an item in a March 1988 Motoring News issue

Carlisle driver Bell had previously been racing a Chevette HSR in Scottish roadgoing and modified saloon events. With the Chevette sold (the new owner was planning to use it in Thundersaloons), Bell was building an RS500 from a damaged shell and 'whatever I can pick up from here, there and everywhere. I thought I would have finished a long time ago, but I haven't had enough to buy all the bits. I'm running on a very low budget'

The intention was to debut the car at Ingliston in April, although May was a more likely prospect, then do a few races in Scotland before possibly trying Thundersaloons, sharing the car with Ray MacDowall. If that went sufficiently well, the Sierra might lose its' roadgoing spec with lightweight panels etc. No mention of the BTCC at all at this stage....

[chunterer]

I always thought it was a strange way to go Touring Car racing in what was already quite an expensive and professional era. A real good old privateer effort in spirit with the road registration on it!!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I always thought it was a strange way to go Touring Car racing in what was already quite an expensive and professional era. A real good old privateer effort in spirit with the road registration on it!!

Yep, I agree with that, plus they used to drive the car to & from the meetings too, not many people have driven a true Group A RS500 on the public roads!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Yep, I agree with that, plus they used to drive the car to & from the meetings too, not many people have driven a true Group A RS500 on the public roads!

No I bet not, quite an eye opening experience I would imagine!! I wonder if anyone did any cheeky shakedowns around their local industrial estate though?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

No I bet not, quite an eye opening experience I would imagine!! I wonder if anyone did any cheeky shakedowns around their local industrial estate though?

It wasn't totally unusual to see the cars of a certain Leicester based Touring Car team to be tested & shaken down on the M69 motorway on trade plates in the early hours...

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

It wasn't totally unusual to see the cars of a certain Leicester based Touring Car team to be tested & shaken down on the M69 motorway on trade plates in the early hours...

Probably a good job the 70mph limit was in place by then....

God know's how quick a 'shakedown' could've been for an RS500 on such a motorway in the 60's!!!!

Probably could've sold tickets for that.

[sonarbell]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

It wasn't totally unusual to see the cars of a certain Leicester based Touring Car team to be tested & shaken down on the M69 motorway on trade plates in the early hours...

Say no more "Squire" !!