Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[Casper]

Awesome! They are going to allow a car that has at best three years of production life left if all the stories are to be believed.

The fact remains that motor racing is running out of what everyone considers to be suitable platforms to base race series on fast and what we have here is a stop gap measure to avoid SC having to do some real thinking about what happens next. I wouldn't like to be involved financially in a series that has at first glance no place to go using a large sedan/two door platform as the only ones left are European and not many of those. Will it be Audi/Mercedes after the current platforms are no longer available? That would be ironic after Mercedes last foray into the series.

Talk about painting yourself into a corner! There is no quick answer to the whole thing at all and every large sedan based series is facing the same problem. It will be interesting to see where NASCAR goes in all this over the next decade.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

I wouldn't like to be involved financially in a series that has at first glance no place to go using a large sedan/two door platform as the only ones left are European and not many of those.

This all-electric Chinese two door might be a possibility?



The right look, and the effortless electric torque that car enthusiasts love?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

Awesome! They are going to allow a car that has at best three years of production life left if all the stories are to be believed.

I think a lot of you are missing the point here.

The point is being able to build and race a car with tacit approval to use the shape from the manufacturer, but not requiring millions of dollars in funding to do it. It is 888 and likely WAU putting together a model for how the series can survive. The ongoing availability of the Camaro is irrelevant.

So you can't currently buy a Camaro... They were sold in that shape and are on the road in Australia, by one of the teams in the series, and the name of that organisation is on the car. What more do you want?

[Razor]

Always an option to re-launch the road going Camaro?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Razor

Always an option to re-launch the road going Camaro?

General Motors are getting out of the car business, 'trucks' and SUVs are more profitable.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Looks fantastic, keeping the main dna of the series which has proven so popular but moved to 2 door cars.

Would be great to see a BMW, KIA Stinger. Hell even a Supra or Z could happen. Toyota has a nascar V8, just destroke it and away we go.

[mayhem]

Santa Claus is due soon, so a few of you can change tact and boo him instead.

[Speed-King]

Supercars has stipulated that the doors, roof, bonnet, and windows of the race car will have the same key dimensions as the road cars they are based upon.

Does that mean there will be different wheelbases too?

[Sandgroper]

LOVE the 888 RBR Render of it.

Looks tuff and much nicer than a TCR 4 Cylinder

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

LOVE the 888 RBR Render of it.

Looks tuff and much nicer than a TCR 4 Cylinder

"Tuff", that's just being silly! So let's race Vipers because they are even more "Tuff" and have better engines, "Tuff" 8.4L V10s instead of pathetic 5L V8s that belong in a pensioner's car.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

"Tuff", that's just being silly! So let's race Vipers because they are even more "Tuff" and have better engines, "Tuff" 8.4L V10s instead of pathetic 5L V8s that belong in a pensioner's car.

We get it, you didnt get what you wanted regarding the new regs. Obviously all the major players in the class feel this is their best direction and are prepared to put their dollars behind it.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I think a lot of you are missing the point here.

The point is being able to build and race a car with tacit approval to use the shape from the manufacturer, but not requiring millions of dollars in funding to do it. It is 888 and likely WAU putting together a model for how the series can survive. The ongoing availability of the Camaro is irrelevant.

So you can't currently buy a Camaro... They were sold in that shape and are on the road in Australia, by one of the teams in the series, and the name of that organisation is on the car. What more do you want?

This whole post reads like an argument for TA2. Wierd how they didn't go down that path... Is it because it was someone else's idea?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Compromised

This whole post reads like an argument for TA2. Wierd how they didn't go down that path... Is it because it was someone else's idea?

No because they are cheap, amateur Nascar knock-offs, and your comment makes it very obvious you havent read the Gen3, rules.

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[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I think a lot of you are missing the point here.

The point is being able to build and race a car with tacit approval to use the shape from the manufacturer, but not requiring millions of dollars in funding to do it. It is 888 and likely WAU putting together a model for how the series can survive. The ongoing availability of the Camaro is irrelevant.

So you can't currently buy a Camaro... They were sold in that shape and are on the road in Australia, by one of the teams in the series, and the name of that organisation is on the car. What more do you want?

What point am I missing? I don't care if it is a Camaro or a Kia the fact remains that suitable large sedan platforms are just about extinct and pushing the limited life Camaro does not ensure any sort of long term future. No platform = no race car. This small problem seems to be brushed under the carpet, most fans would say the motor is the problem but if a suitable platform is not available then the motor sits on the shelf and isn't needed.

[benny41]

Originally Posted by Casper

What point am I missing? I don't care if it is a Camaro or a Kia the fact remains that suitable large sedan platforms are just about extinct and pushing the limited life Camaro does not ensure any sort of long term future. No platform = no race car. This small problem seems to be brushed under the carpet, most fans would say the motor is the problem but if a suitable platform is not available then the motor sits on the shelf and isn't needed.

So what platform would you choose?

Utes - best selling in the market but they have been extremely unpopular as racecars

Small hatches/sedans - tcr has this covered and the jury is still out in regards to if it will work or not

Suvs - same issue as the utes they wouldn't make great race cars

These are the three types of car that are actually selling.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by benny41

So what platform would you choose?

Utes - best selling in the market but they have been extremely unpopular as racecars

Small hatches/sedans - tcr has this covered and the jury is still out in regards to if it will work or not

Suvs - same issue as the utes they wouldn't make great race cars

These are the three types of car that are actually selling.

When you have the answer let me know because I certainly don't. I suppose my point is that I doubt anyone has the answer to the problem that the lack of platforms that are traditionally used presents to motor racing. It is likely that DTM itself won't survive because the factories have lost interest which is another nail in big sedan racing's coffin because if the factories in Europe won't compete in their own domestic series then they sure as hell won't race anywhere else. Unfortunately the product of SC racing is losing its DNA and the reason for its existence, sad but true. Motor racing is going through changes it never wanted and no one was prepared for and SC is not immune to that but the acceptance of the inevitable hasn't happened yet. How long that change can be ignored is anyone's guess.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

"Tuff", that's just being silly! So let's race Vipers because they are even more "Tuff" and have better engines, "Tuff" 8.4L V10s instead of pathetic 5L V8s that belong in a pensioner's car.

YEP Looks Tuff as fudges to me.
Race Vipers I dont care. I have no interest in 4 cylinder TCR vehicles

And YOUR just being silly.

Im happy with my 6Ltr Pensioner Car, I hope your as happy with your 4

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Casper

When you have the answer let me know because I certainly don't.

The answer is to let racecars be just that, racecars. There's almost no manufacturer involvement in the series these days anyway, so just race what fans like, no matter if it's still sold. Argentinian Tourismo Carretera has been racing cars loosely based on 1970s models for 5 decades and is the most popular series there.

At least from the outside looking in, fans in Australia seem to treat Ford and Holden more like sports teams than like car manufacturers anyway. So maybe Supercars just have to embrace that mindset, settle on a popular bodystyle from the past and keep the red vs blue thing going for perpetuity.

Sooner or later, that's gonna be the only way out if they want to keep the cars ICE-powered. It would be beyond comical to race V8-powered versions of electric cars.

[Speed-King]

Delete.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Im happy with my 6Ltr Pensioner Car, I hope your as happy with your 4

I am, it's got VTEC, I like VTEC.

Assuming you have a 6L VE, that's 260kW which sounds like a lot, but the car weighs 1785kg so the power to weight is 'only' 151W/kg.

My old 1000kg Civic with the meagre naturally aspirated 165kW four-cylinder swapped in, actually has a slightly higher power-to-weight ratio than that (obviously 165W/kg), plus obviously it can go around corners quicker because it only weighs 1000kg... [Those with cash, put the same engine into a Lotus Elise which makes a great machine... Mugello what a circuit!]

Just sayin' (add lightness and all that stuff!). There is a reason most vehicles at a hillclimb or track day are four cylinders, a four cylinder in a light car is plenty quick and it's obviously a lot cheaper to run and easier on a consumables than a full-size muscle car.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

The answer is to let racecars be just that, racecars. There's almost no manufacturer involvement in the series these days anyway, so just race what fans like, no matter if it's still sold. Argentinian Tourismo Carretera has been racing cars loosely based on 1970s models for 5 decades and is the most popular series there.

At least from the outside looking in, fans in Australia seem to treat Ford and Holden more like sports teams than like car manufacturers anyway. So maybe Supercars just have to embrace that mindset, settle on a popular bodystyle from the past and keep the red vs blue thing going for perpetuity.

Sooner or later, that's gonna be the only way out if they want to keep the cars ICE-powered. It would be beyond comical to race V8-powered versions of electric cars.

As a silhouette series I am presuming SC have to have permission to copy the body design. If they took production cars and modified them as needed that issue would not exist. Given a short length of time the Holden/Ford thing will not exist as people move on very quickly when it is no longer in their face so to speak and that alone will cut the legs off and change the whole ethos of the series.

The biggest gain from going full electric would be plummeting costs as the cars will be so much simpler due to the drive line changes. Both Porsche and MB have made recent announcements that predict a wholesale change to electric vehicles by the end of this decade for each manufacturer. The manufacturers have very long lead times on the R&D so their planning must start now or at least very soon.

A pessimist would say that motor sport as we know it is not going to exist as it always has but I think that electric vehicles will make it more accessible for the average person to go racing as the technical knowledge requirement will be reduced along with the costs. There will be a few P'd off engine builders though which might be a good thing as most of them have been ripping people off for years. Interesting and chaotic times ahead might be the best way of putting it.

[benny41]

Originally Posted by Casper

As a silhouette series I am presuming SC have to have permission to copy the body design. If they took production cars and modified them as needed that issue would not exist. Given a short length of time the Holden/Ford thing will not exist as people move on very quickly when it is no longer in their face so to speak and that alone will cut the legs off and change the whole ethos of the series.

The biggest gain from going full electric would be plummeting costs as the cars will be so much simpler due to the drive line changes. Both Porsche and MB have made recent announcements that predict a wholesale change to electric vehicles by the end of this decade for each manufacturer. The manufacturers have very long lead times on the R&D so their planning must start now or at least very soon.

A pessimist would say that motor sport as we know it is not going to exist as it always has but I think that electric vehicles will make it more accessible for the average person to go racing as the technical knowledge requirement will be reduced along with the costs. There will be a few P'd off engine builders though which might be a good thing as most of them have been ripping people off for years. Interesting and chaotic times ahead might be the best way of putting it.

I certainly see that electric racing will evolve to become a racing formula. We are at the beginning of this change over but electric racing will only surpass traditional racing when it can acheive the same speeds and and racing time. I cant see that occurring within the next 3 years.

There is also a world where both traditional combustion racing can exist and alongside electric racing. There will be fans of both.

What i would say at the moment is the majority of electric r & d is not being channeled towards racing, which is different to how combustion engine technology evolved. Im not sure if this will change as electric racing ramps up

[bloggs]

For those of us who have been up the top of the Mountain when the lights go out are you hear the roar of the cars coming up the hill. I can not imagine standing up there and hearing the Woosh of electric cars pass by.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by bloggs

For those of us who have been up the top of the Mountain when the lights go out are you hear the roar of the cars coming up the hill. I can not imagine standing up there and hearing the Woosh of electric cars pass by.

And for those that loved the sounds of hooves the roar of the horseless carriages was an assault on the senses.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bloggs

For those of us who have been up the top of the Mountain when the lights go out are you hear the roar of the cars coming up the hill. I can not imagine standing up there and hearing the Woosh of electric cars pass by.

I don't disagree but I really like the sound of Formula E. It's definitely different

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