Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 25 Apr 2020, 11:36 (Ref:3972795)   #26
rich07
Veteran
 
rich07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Victoria
Posts: 8,611
rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!rich07 has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Sad in the sense that so many long time touring car fans and Australian Motorsport fans, who’ve become disillusioned with where the once great ATCC has gone, just get labelled as “VASC haters” for having an opinion that goes against the Supercars gospel

For too long anyone in this forum who dares to criticise Supercars gets howled down by certain members for seemingly not following the “everything to do with Supercars is awesome” guidelines.....

Couldn’t agree more.

Most of the so called haters on here are fans who just want the category to survive and thrive but we’re not gonna pat Supercars on the back and tell them they’re doing the right thing if they won’t make the changes sorely needed so the category can have a long term future.

Part of me wouldn’t mind if the category fell over if only to force a hard reset so the category can change and adapt to the present time. There’s no hate in that just a lot of frustration and disillusionment.
rich07 is offline  
__________________
Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly."
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 00:02 (Ref:3972877)   #27
GreenMachine
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Australia
Canberra
Posts: 304
GreenMachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridGreenMachine should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich07 View Post
Part of me wouldn’t mind if the category fell over if only to force a hard reset so the category can change and adapt to the present time.
Frankly, I think this is on the cards.

I think a clean sheet of paper technically, new people with new ideas, is what might be best for the long term. Putting Supercars on life support will only prolong its death throes, although if it can make the bridge to the new that would be useful.

Hard or soft, the reset has to happen.

The transition from touring cars to what we have today reminds me of some of the management theory I learnt back in the day - particularly dangers associated with making a sequence of incremental changes, without stepping back to look at the bigger picture - when eventually you do, you find that you are in a blind alley.

CV19 may have done all concerned a favour - crystallising an unsustainable situation, and making radical change mandatory. The danger is that another incremental change is seen as the way out - for example the TA2 option. The big picture suggest that a more fundamental re-think is what is required for long term sustainability.

My 2c anyway.
GreenMachine is online now  
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 00:31 (Ref:3972883)   #28
275 GTB-4
Veteran
 
275 GTB-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Australia
South of Sydney NSW, Australie
Posts: 3,499
275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Sad in the sense that so many long time touring car fans and Australian Motorsport fans, who’ve become disillusioned with where the once great ATCC has gone, just get labelled as “VASC haters” for having an opinion that goes against the Supercars gospel

For too long anyone in this forum who dares to criticise Supercars gets howled down by certain members for seemingly not following the “everything to do with Supercars is awesome” guidelines.....
Well said...
275 GTB-4 is offline  
__________________
The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!!
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 01:21 (Ref:3972894)   #29
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,034
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Sad in the sense that so many long time touring car fans and Australian Motorsport fans, who’ve become disillusioned with where the once great ATCC has gone, just get labelled as “VASC haters” for having an opinion that goes against the Supercars gospel

For too long anyone in this forum who dares to criticise Supercars gets howled down by certain members for seemingly not following the “everything to do with Supercars is awesome” guidelines.....
Great post and well worded.
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 03:29 (Ref:3972900)   #30
Speedy400
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 104
Speedy400 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by one five five View Post
Sad in the sense that so many long time touring car fans and Australian Motorsport fans, who’ve become disillusioned with where the once great ATCC has gone, just get labelled as “VASC haters” for having an opinion that goes against the Supercars gospel

For too long anyone in this forum who dares to criticise Supercars gets howled down by certain members for seemingly not following the “everything to do with Supercars is awesome” guidelines.....


👍🏼✔️
Speedy400 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 03:33 (Ref:3972901)   #31
Speedy400
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 104
Speedy400 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Also

I love Supercars. It’s the biggest and best show in town.
I don’t miss a race... but it’s not (no longer?) perfect and even the organisers are aware, hence why they are making changes.

It’s had a real good run but sadly BIG changes are needed.
CV19 whilst nobodies fault- this will be the final straw.
Speedy400 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 05:27 (Ref:3972914)   #32
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy400 View Post
Also

I love Supercars. It’s the biggest and best show in town.
I don’t miss a race... but it’s not (no longer?) perfect and even the organisers are aware, hence why they are making changes.
What changes have they made or are known to be making?
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 05:40 (Ref:3972916)   #33
Speedy400
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 104
Speedy400 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
What changes have they made or are known to be making?

They have been trying to cut costs on engine rebuilds and tyre banks etc. small changes so far.
Speedy400 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2020, 12:41 (Ref:3972951)   #34
Sandgroper
Veteran
 
Sandgroper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Australia
Perth WA (south of the river)
Posts: 2,517
Sandgroper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy400 View Post
They have been trying to cut costs on engine rebuilds and tyre banks etc. small changes so far.
Too little at this point of time but i guess its something.

The landscape will and should change going forward.

Time will tell.
Sandgroper is offline  
__________________
GO Hard or GO Home
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2020, 02:45 (Ref:3973020)   #35
Axeman444
Veteran
 
Axeman444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Australia
Calling a spade a spade...
Posts: 4,117
Axeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAxeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Still pushing buttons I see to see what reaction you get.
Would be good if some buttons were pushed, or more ideally keyboard keys pressed, in regards to administering previous SC Fantasy champs, or even just a casual response
Axeman444 is offline  
__________________
In the words of the Great Forrest Gump: I'm not a smart man, but at least I know where the Dog on the Tuckerbox is
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2020, 03:53 (Ref:3973027)   #36
Jack65
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 266
Jack65 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The most concerning aspect is the spin being put out that the series can prosper without manufacturer support. All the good series around the world have manufacturer involvement. Reintroducing V8s in 1993 was the right thing, but 25 years later the world has moved on. Great as they sound, they have no market relevance to today's mainstream market. And yet some steadfastly refuse to acknowledge this. At some stage the bullet is going need to be bitten to get back to market relevant cars, otherwise the series will just wither on the vine.

And even when change is desperately required and acknowledged, Supercars manages to botch it. Witness the reduction in aero over the off-season. Barely a third of what should have come off did, and the gurney flap which creates the instability for following cars remains, so there will be no increase in passing leading to more boring racing resulting in smaller crowds and tv numbers.
Jack65 is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2020, 13:22 (Ref:3973125)   #37
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There are no suitable road cars to use that would appeal to the fan base of SC or at least I can't think of any. Maybe knock up some replicas of Toranas, GTHO's & Chargers and use them, the chassis already exist so it couldn't be too hard to do. We could also throw in a few Monaros as well for variety.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2020, 15:36 (Ref:3973145)   #38
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,034
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
There are no suitable road cars to use that would appeal to the fan base of SC or at least I can't think of any. Maybe knock up some replicas of Toranas, GTHO's & Chargers and use them, the chassis already exist so it couldn't be too hard to do. We could also throw in a few Monaros as well for variety.
We already have Touring Car Masters successfully covering that category.
https://www.touringcarmasters.com.au/
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2020, 23:59 (Ref:3973244)   #39
Just Do It!
Veteran
 
Just Do It!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
New Zealand
Posts: 4,371
Just Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJust Do It! should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy400 View Post
Also

I love Supercars. It’s the biggest and best show in town.
I don’t miss a race... but it’s not (no longer?) perfect and even the organisers are aware, hence why they are making changes.

It’s had a real good run but sadly BIG changes are needed.
CV19 whilst nobodies fault- this will be the final straw.
You are right, but how will that destabilise other categories?

How many TCR and S5000 cars (which are only marginally faster than a Supercar around Albert Park ) will remain parked in the shed?

Things start to be looking like Procar Mk 2.

Not intending to sound pessimistic, but curious how a relatively fledgling set of series might survive?
Just Do It! is offline  
__________________
Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car.
Quote
Old 28 Apr 2020, 00:17 (Ref:3973249)   #40
ford71
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Australia
Adelaide
Posts: 1,146
ford71 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridford71 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
There are no suitable road cars to use that would appeal to the fan base of SC or at least I can't think of any. Maybe knock up some replicas of Toranas, GTHO's & Chargers and use them, the chassis already exist so it couldn't be too hard to do. We could also throw in a few Monaros as well for variety.

Work on this concept
http://minimusclecars.com.au
ford71 is offline  
__________________
.......just waiting for ANTON DePASQUALE to chalk up his first V8SC Championship!
Quote
Old 28 Apr 2020, 00:36 (Ref:3973255)   #41
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.B View Post
We already have Touring Car Masters successfully covering that category.
https://www.touringcarmasters.com.au/
Never let something like that get in the way of SC's if they wanted to do it.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Apr 2020, 04:51 (Ref:3973270)   #42
E.B
Veteran
 
E.B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
United Kingdom
About 7kms East of Albert Park Melbourne
Posts: 6,034
E.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameE.B will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
Never let something like that get in the way of SC's if they wanted to do it.
I enjoy the TCM and would hate to see SC try and take it to the next level for their own egos, especially given the current costs of TCM aint exactly clubbie budgets!
E.B is online now  
Quote
Old 29 Apr 2020, 19:41 (Ref:3973688)   #43
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack65 View Post
Reintroducing V8s in 1993 was the right thing,
Why wasn't BMW invited to stay with a suitably stroked-out E34 540i?

Similarly Nissan could have produced a V8-powered four-door Skyline at TEGA's expense, using the V8 from the Nissan Cima luxury car.

Alienating committed manufacturers seems very stupid indeed.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Apr 2020, 23:17 (Ref:3973711)   #44
one five five
Veteran
 
one five five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,261
one five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridone five five should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks View Post
Why wasn't BMW invited to stay with a suitably stroked-out E34 540i?

Similarly Nissan could have produced a V8-powered four-door Skyline at TEGA's expense, using the V8 from the Nissan Cima luxury car.

Alienating committed manufacturers seems very stupid indeed.
Mike Raymond did want Nissan and BMW to stay involved
one five five is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2020, 00:39 (Ref:3973715)   #45
Jack65
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 266
Jack65 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ford and Holden were the protagonists for excluding other manufacturers. When the category was formulated in the early 90s, they held a collective 50% market share, the majority of it locally produced. How times have changed.
Jack65 is offline  
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2020, 03:51 (Ref:3973727)   #46
Juarez Jed
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 516
Juarez Jed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJuarez Jed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by E.B View Post
I enjoy the TCM and would hate to see SC try and take it to the next level for their own egos, especially given the current costs of TCM aint exactly clubbie budgets!
MR Story spent upwards of 500k on the new Tru_Blu for TCM. A ridiculous spend for what is not a genuine historic vehicle.
Running costs can be contained for those who do not wish to go down that route with the generic engine I know, but you will only run at the front at the start of the reverse grid races.
Juarez Jed is offline  
__________________
home of saturday night turtle racing "ciudad de juarez raceway"
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2020, 04:01 (Ref:3973728)   #47
Juarez Jed
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 516
Juarez Jed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJuarez Jed should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ford71 View Post
Work on this concept
http://minimusclecars.com.au


Thats all we need, another category trying to get a piece of the TCM/Tranzam/TA2 pie.
Juarez Jed is offline  
__________________
home of saturday night turtle racing "ciudad de juarez raceway"
Quote
Old 30 Apr 2020, 16:24 (Ref:3973825)   #48
billy bleach
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Ireland
Cork
Posts: 2,419
billy bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbilly bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juarez Jed View Post
MR Story spent upwards of 500k on the new Tru_Blu for TCM. A ridiculous spend for what is not a genuine historic vehicle.
Running costs can be contained for those who do not wish to go down that route with the generic engine I know, but you will only run at the front at the start of the reverse grid races.
Wow. What is he earning?!!!!!
billy bleach is online now  
Quote
Old 1 May 2020, 13:58 (Ref:3973967)   #49
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juarez Jed View Post
MR Story spent upwards of 500k on the new Tru_Blu for TCM. A ridiculous spend for what is not a genuine historic vehicle.
Running costs can be contained for those who do not wish to go down that route with the generic engine I know, but you will only run at the front at the start of the reverse grid races.
If he can afford it why should it offend you? People spend money in huge amounts to do all sorts of ridiculous stuff especially when it comes to cars & boats.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 1 May 2020, 23:07 (Ref:3974031)   #50
tobyobi
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 83
tobyobi should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper View Post
If he can afford it why should it offend you? People spend money in huge amounts to do all sorts of ridiculous stuff especially when it comes to cars & boats.
I don’t find it offensive, people can spend whatever they like.

The problem comes when money can be thrown at the problem, and you end up with everyone else either losing or going broke.
tobyobi is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2018 Virgin Australia Supercar Championship Calendar GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 58 3 Nov 2017 08:49
2017 Virgin Australia Supercar Champion (With POLL) GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 29 9 Mar 2017 05:04
2017 Virgin Australia Supercars Championship Calendar GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 24 17 Oct 2016 11:46
Naming Rights Sponsor - Virgin Australia Supercars Championship anthony81901 Australasian Touring Cars. 51 3 May 2016 10:26


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:56.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.