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Old 13 Jul 2019, 08:00 (Ref:3917302)   #16
Mixer
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Nissan probably still uses the OEM headlights, but the others are formed as part of the bumper with a polycarbonate lense glued over the top.
https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...odore-supercar

Likely that VF and FGX had about 50-60% factory parts externally, because of closeness to factory for development.

ZB more like 20-30% exterior parts, biggest part being the bonnet, which is original aluminium.

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Under the skin it’s much the same story. Door frames, side pressings and some infill parts that connect the panels to the chassis are sourced from Germany, but much more is designed in-house than when Holden teams were supplied ‘spoils’ off the Commodore line at Elizabeth. Says Cauchi: “We’re still a little bit reliant [on the factory for parts], but probably only [to the tune of] 20 to 30 percent, whereas we used to be 50 to 60 percent reliant.”
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Up front, aero modifications are only allowed below the bumper line, so within those confines the key change was an aggressive step shaped into the cheek just in front of the wheelarch. That change delivers a little more (compensating) front downforce, but also costs some drag.
This is interesting and I wonder what they interpreted differently to the Mustang.

Anyway point being the cars drifted further from production parts for practical reasons, and Ford literally made no attempt to use any production parts.

There are various pictures around but the most striking comparison for me was with Enforcer and the Dude, where it was kinda obvious that Ford did whatever they had to in order to make the thing slippery even if it ended up a caricature of the real car. There's a certain amount of licence you have to take but if you put road car vs race car for any of the previous makes, and there's parity there that you just don't see with the Mustang front end.

I have no doubt if this car still looked like a Mustang, that between Penske's resources, Ludo's demon tweaks and Scott's driving, it would still win. That's the shame of it that I see.
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Old 13 Jul 2019, 08:57 (Ref:3917309)   #17
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I find it amazing how 5 other bodyshells could be successfully fitted to the COTF chassis, with only minor manipulation.
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Old 13 Jul 2019, 12:48 (Ref:3917338)   #18
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Ruthless racers who pushed grey areas until they broke?
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Old 13 Jul 2019, 13:15 (Ref:3917344)   #19
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Parity caused the lack lustre racing by making them all the same. The rules should be loosened up and allow a bit of individual thinking, it isn't solely cost causing the issue it is the tunnel vision that says they must all be the same.

Now back on topic, what cars are going to replace what is racing now because soon these will be able to race on historic plates.
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Old 13 Jul 2019, 14:46 (Ref:3917378)   #20
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Parity caused the lack lustre racing by making them all the same. The rules should be loosened up and allow a bit of individual thinking, it isn't solely cost causing the issue it is the tunnel vision that says they must all be the same.

Now back on topic, what cars are going to replace what is racing now because soon these will be able to race on historic plates.
Well the Mustang has just had a refresh and the Insignia hasn't been out long, so I don't see them being out of date. They got 10 season out of the Falcon, yet the new Holden is too old at a season and a half?
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Old 13 Jul 2019, 20:33 (Ref:3917418)   #21
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How long can SC keep running out of date cars in the form of the Holden & Falcon before they have to call it quits and actually address the question of what to do next. Have the more informed members here any knowledge on this matter and where they might be going, is there actually a business plan to replace the present majority of the field and if so with what? It is becoming a concern I would think as the cars will be at least 3 years old at the end of next year and the rumours of a Camaro entry may be short circuited as well by news that it may be killed off by 2023. https://www.thedrive.com/news/28680/...planned-report

I think SC have been a victim of circumstance here in a perfect storm and the plan it runs on now has become defunct due to circumstances beyond it's control. I know this has been sort of discussed before but that was over a year ago when things were not so dire with the age of the cars. A lot of people have a lot of money wrapped up in the series and I bet they are asking questions as well.
Que? No one runs a Falcon in Supercars anymore do they?
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Old 14 Jul 2019, 21:20 (Ref:3917695)   #22
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the series is becoming less and less relevant all the time, people are walking away in droves and it isn't because the 'Mustang' is winning, it is because of the stupid rules and interpretation of them, from penalties to the 'cars', I call them 'sports sedans, they aren't production cars, they fit more into the 'sports sedans' category
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Old 15 Jul 2019, 02:23 (Ref:3917733)   #23
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mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Given the importance of qualifying, when the difference in grid spots can come down to whether the sun is out on your qualifying lap, I reckon you've got a problem.
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Old 15 Jul 2019, 06:59 (Ref:3917753)   #24
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Given the importance of qualifying, when the difference in grid spots can come down to whether the sun is out on your qualifying lap, I reckon you've got a problem.
That might speak to the level of parity within the series though, which is arguably a strong, positive feature.

If not for Scotty/Ludo/Penske the racing this year would have been fantastic with varied results and good fights- exactly what you'd expect from a parity series.

Trying to entice manufacturers with the two door option has led to the current situation - it was always going to be akward to homologate substantially different body shapes.

I've always maintained a move away from manufacturers would be successful. Why don't we throw the drivers in Super 5000 cars? I don't think you'd lose any fans, plus you'd probably gain former F1 fans from overseas, yearning for simpler, louder cars. Don't have to worry about the whims of manufacturers, what models are market relevant etc.
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Old 15 Jul 2019, 11:23 (Ref:3917812)   #25
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Why don't we throw the drivers in Super 5000 cars? I don't think you'd lose any fans, plus you'd probably gain former F1 fans from overseas, yearning for simpler, louder cars.
Because unfortunately single seaters historically have never been as popular as touring cars in this country.

I'm not sure what the answer is but it's somewhere between Marc Cars and TCR. I love hot hatches always will and so TCR floats my boat. It's not what everyone wants though.

I'm happy to admit my tastes aren't the same as eveyones but not a lot on here can do that.
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Old 15 Jul 2019, 12:17 (Ref:3917820)   #26
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Looking in from the outside, big beastie V8 RWD saloon type racing cars are a good thing. Some of the interpretation and management of that are not so good, but the base product is something many countries are a little envious of.

TCRs are generally awful, BTCC is similar, both appeal to certain types of supporters, but on the whole people who like BTCC (and F1) are not the same people who like all of the rest of motorsport, so it's a niche market, if a fairly successful one in its own way. Neither seem to be good for motorsport as a whole, though.

GTs seem to highly successful up here, but hugely expensive. Perhaps the ground rules of that applied to Supercars could be a good mix?
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Old 16 Jul 2019, 10:37 (Ref:3917980)   #27
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TCRs are generally awful, BTCC is similar, both appeal to certain types of supporters,
Not sure what you are on about. BTCC is great! Even with the control subframes and balance-of-performance of the engines, there is still enough resemblance to the real cars and real engines (in the manufacturer entries not using the generic TOCA engine) to satisfy most.


Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 16 Jul 2019 at 10:45.
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Old 16 Jul 2019, 10:39 (Ref:3917981)   #28
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I love hot hatches always will and so TCR floats my boat. It's not what everyone wants though.
The vast majority of compact, mid-size and large rear wheel drive hatches & sedans are (1) automatics and (2) don't come standard with a limited slip differential (optional on M140i for example). So much for rear wheel drive "ultimate driving machines". Therefore I question what people want!

At least front wheel drive hot hatches are usually manual and usually come with a factory standard LSD.
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Old 16 Jul 2019, 10:54 (Ref:3917982)   #29
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TCRs are generally awful, BTCC is similar, both appeal to certain types of supporters, but on the whole people who like BTCC (and F1) are not the same people who like all of the rest of motorsport,
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Looking in from the outside, big beastie V8 RWD saloon type racing cars are a good thing.
With UK petrol prices ($2-2.50 AUD per litre + road tax), it's little wonder a 2.0L / 201g/CO2km Subaru Levorg (pictured below in BTCC trim) or 2.0L/ 141g/CO2km BMW 330i (BTCC version) or 2.0L / 200g/CO2km Civic Type R (below also in BTCC trim) is already considered a luxury and aspirational, let alone a 6.2L / 348g CO2/km Vauxhall VXR8.

The HSV attracts £2070 for it's first year road tax in the UK, due to it's high CO2 emissions! The Subaru and Honda still get stung, but only for £1240. The lower powered (185kW BMW vs 220 kW for the Honda) four-banger BMW 330i only attracts £205 first year road tax, you can see why that would be attractive!

Even with Australian petrol prices ($1.20-1.50 AUD per litre) and no CO2 road tax at all, most Australian motorists still don't drive large V8 RWDs like HSVs, Mustang GTs or Falcon XR8s (or their German Mercedes E63 / BMW M5 equivalent). Even those who do, mostly use them as automatic transmission powerful luxury cruising machines rather than as agile sport sedans for enthusiastic driving.

How appropriate can a 1.8-2.0 tonne V8 RWD/AWD car like a HSV or E63 ever be for having a squirt in the mountains anyway? That's where the 1.3-1.4 tonne hot hatch seems more appropriate IMO, despite the (unfortunate) "fail wheel drive" layout that I agree is inherently wrong and would be better if it was rear wheel drive.

IMO the latter type of vehicle (hot hatch) more closely relates to what a punter might actually drive. A person can cheer on a BMW 330i or Civic Type R in BTCC or TCR that is similar to the car they actually drive.

Whereas the production HSV (at 1.8 tonnes) seems barely comparable to the 1.3 tonne spaceframe Car of the Future VF Commodore race car. The agility of the lightweight latter model seems a misrepresentation of the ability of the road going version IMO.




Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 16 Jul 2019 at 11:08.
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Old 16 Jul 2019, 12:37 (Ref:3917996)   #30
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Not sure what you are on about. BTCC is great! Even with the control subframes and balance-of-performance of the engines, there is still enough resemblance to the real cars and real engines (in the manufacturer entries not using the generic TOCA engine) to satisfy most.
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