Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 17 Jul 2019, 02:30 (Ref:3918079)   #31
HDTVKSS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 509
HDTVKSS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolley View Post
Dodgems. Unregulated mayhem. Won't go near them.
cant please everyone. neither should you try.

If you cant see the value and potential in something like TCR I can't really help you. V8's were a great series. now, its a dinosaur. too expensive, uneven and misapplied regulation, put the cart before the horse in the TV deal and only 1 team, maybe 2 can afford to run properly. 800K a year for Super 2 is a joke. unfortunately for V8 supercars and having them being so aggressive and protectionist in regards to screwing over other categories to put themselves first, its only a matter of time before they live the truth of "those you screw on the way up are waiting to **** you on the way down"

GT3 has been massively mismanaged in this country and the field size shows it. the pit stop timing this is such a turn off i can't deal. some people like it - more power to them. unfortunately, i see TCR pinching competitors from GT3 more than V8SC at this stage.

don't even get me started on the calamity that is F4....

Last edited by HDTVKSS; 17 Jul 2019 at 02:40.
HDTVKSS is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Jul 2019, 12:19 (Ref:3918134)   #32
Gaz170
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Australia
Gold Coast, QLD
Posts: 1,455
Gaz170 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
They need a total re-write of the rules for 2021. Change the chassis to suit the Mustang and Camaro (and GTR?). RWD only, V8 or turbo V6 (power outputs to be matched). Even a 6 series BMW could look good if someone wanted to run one.
Make a crate engine available for default use if someone wants to run a different body without engine development costs.
Some of the Enforcer and The Dude's ideas about costs very valid, even if the cars are a bit slower than the current cars, if every car is slower by the same amount then it's no problem.
Gaz170 is offline  
__________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
Quote
Old 17 Jul 2019, 13:21 (Ref:3918155)   #33
Woolley
Race Official
Veteran
 
Woolley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
England
Wolverhampton, England
Posts: 12,305
Woolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameWoolley will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
If you cant see the value and potential in something like TCR I can't really help you.
WTCC is poor compared with how it has been. The big problem with TCR is that while fast, they're uninteresting on their own. Also over-managed on BOP, etc, without really saving money. The British series was a disaster with only a handful of cars which generally didn't run very closely, but ran into each other whenever they did. Imploded after one season. Admittedly the competition with BTCC was more equal and they were never going to compete with that.

BTCC is more akin to demolition derby with the most appalling driving standards, and an unfortunate attitude problem where drivers are happy to dish it out, but not similarly prepared to accept it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
V8's were a great series. now, its a dinosaur. too expensive, uneven and misapplied regulation
Can't disagree with a lot of that, although as a platform it could be so much better. The cars are interesting to watch and sound fantastic. There's also a very good field still. A better version of V8s could be simple and no more expensive than any other top level series, but vested interests seem to get in the way of that. The implosion of manufacturers could be beneficial if someone has the guts to write decent regulations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
GT3 has been massively mismanaged in this country and the field size shows it.
Again, agreed. However, the cars are thrilling and the racing can be very close. British championship is in excellent health and it wouldn't be difficult to transport the basic model to another market. Aus/NZ would be ideal. It's possible, run correctly, that it would take over from V8s, perhaps keeping the current cars, or a version of them, as a secondary class so as not to render them obsolete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
don't even get me started on the calamity that is F4....
Single make single seaters. ugh. Good SS classes are excellent, but they should be multi-chassis. Unfortunately no-one seems to want to do that any more. Plus the various categories are too varied in terms of series, and too much the same within them. Just need to be 3-4 stepping stones to the top with gradually increasing power and grip. At European/National level, it's a bit of a shambles with spectators not really understanding where each series sits, and where the best drivers from each year probably aren't competing against each other. For a start, bring back proper FFord!
Woolley is offline  
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other.
Quote
Old 18 Jul 2019, 10:47 (Ref:3918312)   #34
HDTVKSS
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 509
HDTVKSS should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
@myself - TL;DR

@Gaz170 - the issue is that Chev is probably shelving the Camaro in the next couple of years. so then where do they turn? if they want to keep doing this they need a complete rethink. the only real answer I can see to retain the V8 scenario is run something like a MARC car - hell they even have a Mustang that looks like a Mustang...

I have found the TCR racing in Aus to be great, and while certainly interested i was skeptical about what was going to be seen. from what i have seen to BTCC, yes probably too much biff. AusTCR seems to have this more or less under control and the drivers seem to be respecting it for the moment. 10 sec penalties applied for unnecessary contact. the gret test for TCR is are they strong enough to stand up to Lync and Co. if not, this could go south or they will need to allow full manuf models (tbh im not upset with this as long as total cost is contained as it currently is)

At this stage, unless the ass end totally falls out of V8SC then i cant see GT3 or TCR taking over in the short term. maybe GT4. With GT3, i love the cars and regularly attend the 12 hour but they are on rails. im sure they are amazing to drive but to watch is a bit meh. the series kicked a major own goals in Aus with the penalty pit stop scenario where name drivers had to spend longer in the pits etc. that was bullshit and totally turned me off. many other disagree and thats their choice. i guess in summary GT3 is racing to shut the gate while the horse is currently down the road, over the hill and far away.

Aus motorsport is somewhat at a crossroads much like F1 was with the new turbo era. whether V8SC and its fans accepts that or not its still a fact. TCR is never going to please the great unwashed at McPhillamy Park, but does it have to? maybe its time for a change and change can take time.

Look at the latest 888 Red Bull / Holden deal. yes, they re signed but the hot rumor was it was for much less than before. If the 2nd best team in the country cant get full value, what hope does BJR or similar have? fair play to Penske - he did what Penske does best - used his checkbook (hes American hence Yank spelling) and wielded it like a sledgehammer bought the best talent and brought in a car to the letter but not the spirit of the rules that may actually hasten the demise of the sport. I guess that is what it is. the sport is so desperate to have Ford and RP involved, they will throw some half hearted parity measures at it without addressing the major issues. toothless tigers. before i get a flood of Ford hate mail, id say the same if it was a Holden team flouting the rules like that. the issues with the Commodore (probably also Ludos ideas in at least some part) should have been addressed last year and FFS put them in a wind tunnel - or just get Penskes results from his

reduced calendars, falling viewership and TV deals that are not in the best interest of the sport have not helped. it certainly makes it harder in my opinion to convince a potential sponsor to part with their cash to sustain your team at current staffing - but i guess on the bright side BJR will save on changing the livery every 20 minutes ( I know , you have Fox / Kayo and you love it - no one in the general public cares).

we live in some interesting motorsport times.

Last edited by HDTVKSS; 18 Jul 2019 at 10:53.
HDTVKSS is offline  
Quote
Old 21 Jul 2019, 09:49 (Ref:3918712)   #35
Gaz170
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Australia
Gold Coast, QLD
Posts: 1,455
Gaz170 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGaz170 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
@myself - TL;DR

@Gaz170 - the issue is that Chev is probably shelving the Camaro in the next couple of years. so then where do they turn? if they want to keep doing this they need a complete rethink. the only real answer I can see to retain the V8 scenario is run something like a MARC car - hell they even have a Mustang that looks like a Mustang...
Maybe Marc based cars are the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
I have found the TCR racing in Aus to be great.....
Agreed, but still a secondary category. More in competition to Super2 than VASC at the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
Look at the latest 888 Red Bull / Holden deal. yes, they re signed but the hot rumor was it was for much less than before. If the 2nd best team in the country cant get full value, what hope does BJR or similar have? fair play to Penske - he did what Penske does best - used his checkbook (hes American hence Yank spelling) and wielded it like a sledgehammer bought the best talent and brought in a car to the letter but not the spirit of the rules that may actually hasten the demise of the sport. .........and FFS put them in a wind tunnel - or just get Penskes results from his
Wind tunnel tests should have started with the new Commodore. Holden opened the floodgates so Ford via Roger drove a bulldozer through them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVKSS View Post
reduced calendars, falling viewership and TV deals that are not in the best interest of the sport have not helped. it certainly makes it harder in my opinion to convince a potential sponsor to part with their cash to sustain your team at current staffing
Agreed.
Gaz170 is offline  
__________________
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
Quote
Old 21 Jul 2019, 14:01 (Ref:3918724)   #36
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,033
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Without being too flippant about it, there is no easy answer, a field of "Mustangs"as the Camaro has been given the boot? What other cars have V8's that could be used? The only cars being produced are of European origin and they are simply not interested or do not appear to be. I doubt Mercedes would even entertain the idea, the last time their badge was used did not put them in a good place at all.

I would suggest the decision needs to be made this year to allow for some planning on what is to be done but I think the planners are in hiding and don't know what to do and the fans have no idea if this forum is any indication as well. Everyone thought the ford/Holden thing would carry on five years ago and of course it hasn't and there was no need to give this any thought at all.

When the closure of manufacturing was announced I am sure the powers that be looked at the US and thought the Camaro/Mustang was their future but GM have nixed that idea and the Yanks are not building any suitable cars these days apart from the Mustang. Surely the fans have wondered what is going to happen but it does not appear to have sunk in, the Holdens and Falcons are not being made and will not be around forever. When does it become not feasible to race these cars?
Casper is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Jul 2019, 00:00 (Ref:3918759)   #37
Tourer
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Australia
Sideways
Posts: 2,980
Tourer has a real shot at the podium!Tourer has a real shot at the podium!Tourer has a real shot at the podium!Tourer has a real shot at the podium!
Supercars has already said that they'll be making announcements re the future direction of the category when next year's calendar is announced - we'll find out then how far ahead they are looking for now and what decisions they've made for that timeframe.

Don't quite understand the references to Falcons through this thread as they no longer run in the series anyway and nor do Australian-built Commodores - so the references to local manufacture are already gone (sadly).

GM has already announced the ceasing of Camaro in the near future and no doubt that has torpedoed one direction that the series could have gone in. Mustang remains, Challenger is still on the US market and Chrysler Oz have said a number of times that it would like to bring them in here and on the GM front, Cadillac might provide some suitable iron and there were strong rumours of them being sold here at one stage but I don't know how "live" that is now.

Other than that it is a case of what can go under any manufacturers bodywork. As we've seen with Camry in NASCAR, in DTM a few times and Altima / current Commodore here - a racecar can still run around with quite different mechanicals from the donor road car and work in a series.
Tourer is online now  
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue
Quote
Old 22 Jul 2019, 01:54 (Ref:3918766)   #38
mayhem
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Aruba
On that Island in LOST.
Posts: 3,065
mayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmayhem should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Is it possible we could see a Corvette on the grid?

Holden Confirms Corvette
mayhem is online now  
__________________
The Jerk Store rang...
Quote
Old 22 Jul 2019, 04:51 (Ref:3918779)   #39
Compromised
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 619
Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
4 seats?
Compromised is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Jul 2019, 08:52 (Ref:3918802)   #40
bludvl_x19
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Australia
umop apisdn
Posts: 1,490
bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem View Post
Is it possible we could see a Corvette on the grid?

Holden Confirms Corvette

If you thought that the Mustang was a category killer, bring in a mid-engined GT car and the Mustang looks like an Alitma.
bludvl_x19 is online now  
__________________
If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.

That's why people with no sense of humour have an increased sense of self-importance.
Quote
Old 22 Jul 2019, 11:10 (Ref:3918818)   #41
Maggo
Racer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Germany
Posts: 133
Maggo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Then we should move that supercars thread from Touringcars to GT cars
Maggo is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Jul 2019, 19:06 (Ref:3918881)   #42
Trevor
Veteran
 
Trevor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Australia
Victoria
Posts: 1,471
Trevor should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have been saying for years that the Supercars are 'sports sedans'
Trevor is online now  
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
Quote
Old 22 Jul 2019, 23:01 (Ref:3918925)   #43
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 6,966
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Technically, yes.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Jul 2019, 03:23 (Ref:3918947)   #44
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 5,407
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I have been saying for years that the Supercars are 'sports sedans'
And a tomato is a fruit - but that is a piece of information that is basically irrelevant.
Mixer is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Jul 2019, 08:51 (Ref:3918967)   #45
Casper
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,033
Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
I have been saying for years that the Supercars are 'sports sedans'
Ah! the days of sports sedans, we saw some really clever and innovative thinking then unlike the copy and paste of today. Combined with F5000 & Group C they were great days in motor sport, perhaps the heyday we did not realise we had. My apologies to those who missed it, like derestricted speed limits on highways it is doubtful we will see it again.
Casper is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Collectable Race Cars - Dreamers Inc! GTRMagic Australasian Touring Cars. 32 18 Feb 2008 01:01
The future of motoring ~ inc. electric cars IL LEONE Road Car Forum 5 7 Jul 2005 15:26
Super-Tourers .... Are they dead in Aus? DNQ Australasian Touring Cars. 23 26 Dec 2000 12:00


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.