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Old 8 Sep 2018, 20:44 (Ref:3848920)   #31
Mike Bell
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Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
Robert Barrie is a Porsche man, his 356 was trounced by Sam Tordoff. Driver? Or car?
In that particular case Iíd say both.....
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Old 12 Sep 2018, 18:49 (Ref:3849694)   #32
john ruston
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john ruston should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjohn ruston should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridjohn ruston should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
The car is substantially quicker than Roberts car but remember Tordoffs fastest lap in the car at LMC was 5 45 which is 11 secs slower than the Zef/MB qualifying time in same car two years ago!
Quality drivers on here!
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Old 23 Sep 2018, 12:50 (Ref:3852164)   #33
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Paul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPaul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
Either his opinion of slack crap old cars has changed, or he and the btcc boys are racing something completely different. . . . .
I think Zef's onto something here...

I've always wondered what sort of times a pro-driver could do with one of my cars, compared to my own best efforts. I like to think, in my more hallucinogenic moments, that they wouldn't be able to pedal it any faster than me - but the reality is more likely to be that they'd do half a lap, park it up and vow never to drive such a death-trap again!

The stuff these guys are racing at the Classic, Goodwood, et al are nothing like the things most of us club racers trundle around in at the weekends.
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Old 23 Sep 2018, 13:04 (Ref:3852170)   #34
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Well I'm a club racer and I think my cars are pretty well put together. And yes Tiff is much quicker than me. However Delta and me tend to swap fastest times. It's my turn in Portugal.
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Old 23 Sep 2018, 14:13 (Ref:3852190)   #35
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hmm . . .not so sure . . .

Tony Dron was 1s quicker than me at Goodwood in 2007, I had only been racing 3 and a bit years.

2011, Derek Bell was 1s slower than me. I was just in the top ten, he was mid teens.

2013 he was considerably slower than me . . . . although I didn't get to race I know my times, and had been competitive for a few years with a few wins . . . . the car needed driving a certain way. pretty hard and fast, to get brakes etc working properly, it certainly never happened that weekend! No one else that's driven my car has been as quick as me in it, but that's probably just having less confidence and a little respect for a friends car!

A lot of us are very familiar with our own cars. Pro/celebrities never used to test, just arrive and drive, but its commonplace now for things like St MArys.

I have been quicker than owners in a few other cars I've driven, but not always, I about held my own against seasoned semi Pro's like Mike @ LMC
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Old 23 Sep 2018, 14:22 (Ref:3852191)   #36
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I think Zef's onto something here...

I've always wondered what sort of times a pro-driver could do with one of my cars, compared to my own best efforts. I like to think, in my more hallucinogenic moments, that they wouldn't be able to pedal it any faster than me - but the reality is more likely to be that they'd do half a lap, park it up and vow never to drive such a death-trap again!

The stuff these guys are racing at the Classic, Goodwood, et al are nothing like the things most of us club racers trundle around in at the weekends.
With the recent passing of 'Whizzo' I recalled an event that underlined, for me, the difference between Club Racer, and Professional. When the HSCC celebrated their 40th. Anniversary they ran a race for 1950's Sports Cars as in the original 'Griffiths Formula', and in a field of specialist machinery, Barrie drove a Jaguar XK120. On a sopping wet track the XK outdistanced all of the D-Types, Maseratis etc. as Mr Williams demonstrated the chasm between Club and Professional racing driver. A master class of control on a treacherous surface in a car that had no business being anywhere near the front of the race.


https://photos.app.goo.gl/n5TJLw9qJick5aXo9

One race I never forgotten.

Bauble.
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Old 23 Sep 2018, 17:04 (Ref:3852216)   #37
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morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
They are certainly a different class. Back in 2011, I think, the year the new layout was used at Snetterton on the 300 circuit Craig Dolby drove my Lotus Cortina in a clubbie HSCC Historic Touring Car race. He is a friend of my stepson and has been Belgian Formula Renault champion and also won in the Superleague Formula single seaters (remember them?) being second in that championship. He sat in the car for the first time on the morning of practice and put the car on pole by almost a second in drizzly weather never having raced a car anything resembling the Cortina (nor any type of saloon or GT, to my knowledge) or anything on the Dunlop 'M' nogrips that we used. He won the race in better (but not perfect) conditions. Not only did he adapt to something alien but he truly enjoyed himself. I have a picture on the wall in front of me now of him leading two other Cortinas and inscribed 'Thank you for a great experience and a day I will never forget.' I treasure that photo and I doubt that I would have got within 5 seconds of his lap time despite having driven the car for 20 years. They just have a feel for what a car is doing that escapes amateurs such as me.
I also sat alongside him in a Lotus Exige at a Spa track day and realised just how much more speed a pro carries through corners. That was a real eye opener.
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Old 23 Sep 2018, 18:33 (Ref:3852246)   #38
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Peter, don't discredit yourself too Much old bean! Asides the fact he's a 'few
' years younger, he'd probably already spent more time racing at 20 than you had at 50. Whilst none or hardly any of us are/we're ever likely to make the grade 'professionally' most of us didn't start until we could afford to. In my case 33!

As Mike says, seat time makes a huge difference!
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Old 23 Sep 2018, 21:55 (Ref:3852305)   #39
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Seat time and commitment.

I was working at Combe recently and witnessed a couple of professional bike riders - McGuinness and Martin as it happened - doing some testing. I've been watching testing at Combe for 20 years or more and I've never, ever seen that sort of commitment. It was so fast.

Now these were mad bikers, but I have seen proper pro drivers there too and it is always the commitment that stands out against the merely good "amateurs".

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Old 24 Sep 2018, 07:02 (Ref:3852342)   #40
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
How does one define commitment?

Sheer lunacy and death wish for bike racers ?

Possibly the same for modern car racers. . . .the things are so much safer than anything built before say the mid 1980's ?
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Old 24 Sep 2018, 10:09 (Ref:3852358)   #41
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Well I'm a club racer and I think my cars are pretty well put together. And yes Tiff is much quicker than me. However Delta and me tend to swap fastest times. It's my turn in Portugal.
Ha Ha, very much looking forward to that Peter. BTW there is no way I am a professional race driver.I get to drive lots of cars but mostly from me being a race car mechanic.
I can help with a bit of tuition but I am not very good at that.We have had professional drivers on board a few times and they can be hard work.
I was pleased at Goodwood this year in the Westminster as I managed to get down to times that the pro's have done.
Lets just carry on having fun which is what its all about.
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Old 24 Sep 2018, 10:34 (Ref:3852363)   #42
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Paul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridPaul D should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I tend to agree with what's been said already: seat time and commitment are key factors. I imagine the average pro gets more track time in a week than many of us see in a year. Access to professionally built & set-up cars must also make a big difference.

For commitment, I think you can read, at least in part, "doesn't have to fix the car or pay for it when he bends it"! How many of us could go faster if we had no regard for the car? By that, I don't mean abusing the car, as that doesn't necessarily equal quicker times, but simply not having to worry about using those extra few revs when needed, or committing to a corner 100%, knowing that if it goes wrong and you stick it in the wall, it's not your problem (at least, as far as fixing the car is concerned). How many of us would be quicker if we could afford (or justify) new brakes & tyres for every race? What if we could all have a day's testing at the venue immediately prior to racing there? With a team of guys who do it for a living ready to make adjustments to the car to set it up just as we wished it to be? Most of us club racers don't have access to any of this. I can only speak for myself, but I do everything on my cars myself with no external input from anyone who you would consider as a professional in the motorsport industry. Simply put, I have to, as it's the only way I can afford to go racing.

I don't know what sort or arrangements are made between owners of cars driven by pros at places like Goodwood and the drivers themselves. But I'd be surprised if the drivers sign any kind of formal agreement that they'll pay for any damage inflicted whilst they're driving. That's not to say that many of them wouldn't offer to pay if they bent it, but are they obliged to? I guess the really valuable stuff is insured?

I started tarmac rallying in '93 at the ripe old age of 30, and began circuit racing 10 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if all of my seat time in those last 25 years added up to around the same as a typical pro driver does in a year or two.

Had I been able to afford to start before I was 20 and race or rally regularly, would I have been quick enough to match the pros? Who knows? But I do know that I'd certainly be a lot quicker than I am now!
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Old 24 Sep 2018, 11:18 (Ref:3852369)   #43
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Spot on, Paul.

And as delta says, letís carry on having fun. I want to get out of a car at the end of the race with a big grin on my face. Doesnít always happen, but most of the time it does.....
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Old 24 Sep 2018, 11:56 (Ref:3852378)   #44
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delta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddelta should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Did yesterday Mike . It was good to be with you Dan and Cliff . 😋
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Old 24 Sep 2018, 16:36 (Ref:3852421)   #45
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well said Paul, only raced Cortina once last year, an hour in the ****ing rain on brands gp with no wipers for 20m, no grin at the end of that!
previous year ended with a massive grin after a pair of 30m races at spa. Better get the shed out next spring and do something amusing. Or finish the TT, which now has rear uprights and drive shafts, could be on wheels very soon!
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