Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Pandamasque]

Opel do have a sporting pedigree...

[broadrun96]

But a truly informed opinion should be expressed, dismissing an entrant by using the buzz words of fast and furious shows a LACK of knowledge about their events and that's what I was calling out. If you want to dismiss them because they aren't you team fine, but if you only find excitement because of the team it is not what they have accomplished then to me you miss the whole point of prototypes and I believe waht Audi and Toyota are doing. And so when Audi showed up and they weren't Porsche or Ferrari and lead the field were you as dismissive?? Sorry but I can go back and see there wasn't the complete lack of respect for what they did on here and other boards and yet they are now one of the pre-eminent builders and technological leaders out there. Is no one else allowed in your playground?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Opel do have a sporting pedigree...

Yes, they do but....oh, this point isn't worth making any more.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But a truly informed opinion should be expressed, dismissing an entrant by using the buzz words of fast and furious shows a LACK of knowledge about their events and that's what I was calling out. If you want to dismiss them because they aren't you team fine, but if you only find excitement because of the team it is not what they have accomplished then to me you miss the whole point of prototypes and I believe waht Audi and Toyota are doing. And so when Audi showed up and they weren't Porsche or Ferrari and lead the field were you as dismissive?? Sorry but I can go back and see there wasn't the complete lack of respect for what they did on here and other boards and yet they are now one of the pre-eminent builders and technological leaders out there. Is no one else allowed in your playground?

I was just talking for the man on the street, who when asked to name a sporty manufacturer would probably list 50 makes before they get to Hyundai when I referred to what they're about. I know what Hyundai do and have done in motorsport, that doesn't need repeating to me - although I'm rare in that.

When Audi joined the sport I was 5 years old so probably wasn't old enough to comment intellectually () but if I was old enough, then I probably would be fairly excited about a brand like Audi joining the field.

You really have gone over the top about me expressing an honest opinion and your language is hardly fare on what I'm trying to say. I'm not arrogant enough to call my sport "my playground", but I do however reserve my right to not be thrilled at seeing a Hyundai race at LM, and if that offends you then you should probably find something more serious to be offended about.

[Acid09]

Honestly, I don't care too much about it. If they bring cars that are as exciting as the TS030 for example, Tata, Kia & Dacia could battle for LMP1 glory - I would happily watch.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

All I've said it, I wouldn't be excited about Hyundai coming to Le Mans.

Which is exactly why they need to embark on such a program. It is a brand name that so few people are excited about, that they should run a high profile racing program. Design a great car, run a competitive program for years, and chances are people would change their opinions over time.

[CyberMotor]

Hyundai and Kia now have a strong manufacturing presence in Georgia, home of the Petit Le Mans. The Kia/Hyundai factory in West Point is also not too far from Daytona, relatively speaking. It's possible they want to make a greater statement these days. If they make an appearance in the somewhat near future, it would not be too surprising to me. Just speculating, though.

http://blog.al.com/businessnews/2012...ion_in_ge.html

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/08/...plant-georgia/

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Which is exactly why they need to embark on such a program. It is a brand name that so few people are excited about, that they should run a high profile racing program. Design a great car, run a competitive program for years, and chances are people would change their opinions over time.

I wouldn't argue against this either.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Which is exactly why they need to embark on such a program. It is a brand name that so few people are excited about, that they should run a high profile racing program. Design a great car, run a competitive program for years, and chances are people would change their opinions over time.

Agreed - look at the transformation of the Audi 'brand' since they started racing at LM. back in the '90's they were boring second fiddle to both BMW and Merc - but now they are seen as arguably a better quality and a better brand than both.

Not all down to LM but to a global marketing and branding policy in which sportscar racing has played a significant part.

[ArnageWRC]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Opel do have a sporting pedigree...

Yes, Walter won a World Title in one, and was sacked soon afterwards.

Hyundai have a Motorsport facility in Germany, for their WRC programme. Ex Peugeot engineer Michel Nandan will lead the team.

[Pandamasque]

Hyundai is not going to be attractive to the fans right until they take matter into their own hands and build sexy (race) cars and show some engineering excellence.

[CTD]

I should never have mentioned Hyundai

[Pandamasque]

No, no. We should keep taunting them until they come up with a Le Mans programme.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by Mal

Agreed - look at the transformation of the Audi 'brand' since they started racing at LM. back in the '90's they were boring second fiddle to both BMW and Merc - but now they are seen as arguably a better quality and a better brand than both.

Not all down to LM but to a global marketing and branding policy in which sportscar racing has played a significant part.

Their sportscars may be good, the quality of their streetproducts is not as good as their marketing and branding is leading us to believe. Ever more surveys show their cars high up in the 'unreliable engine' charts.
They simply can't touch Mercedes' quality on this plain...

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Ever more surveys show their cars high up in the 'unreliable engine' charts.
They simply can't touch Mercedes' quality on this plain...

So that is why you go forward on an endurance racing program (along with improving your street project). Supercharge your engineering staff, supercharge the production floor. Change the vibe. Accountants probably rule the company, replace their vision with the scream of engines and the win on Sunday/sell on Monday ethos.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Their sportscars may be good, the quality of their streetproducts is not as good as their marketing and branding is leading us to believe. Ever more surveys show their cars high up in the 'unreliable engine' charts.
They simply can't touch Mercedes' quality on this plain...

Well then that is exactly my point their marketing and branding is elevating their perceived position. If that is in excess of the quality of their product then it just proves just how well they are doing with it.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Hyundai is not going to be attractive to the fans right until they take matter into their own hands and build sexy (race) cars and show some engineering excellence.

The Genesis is a start in the right direction, its a shame Hyundai itself never brought that to Grand AM GT. It looked sporty in drifting and didnt even need to be converted from front wheel drive unlike the Scions it competed against.

I think an LMP is a step too far for the company same with Volvo. Wish both of them would happen but it wont for many reasons, money being only one of them.

[Simmi]

I think Hyundal are currently spending all their money on recruiting talent for their WRC team.

Latest guy announced is Bertrand Vallat, the man behind the Peugeot 207 rally car. They also have Michel Nandan who designed the 206 WRC so it seems they are quite serious about getting it right.

[GT6]

It is strange that so many people appear to dismiss the thought of a Korean company daring to enter sportscar racing, the comments often on the lines of "not our sort of car" those same people would have raged against the check of japanese companies being allowed to enter Le Mans. Strange also that many of the manufacturers these same people would welcome produce cars that fail to sell to the public or make such huge losses that only massive subsidies keep them in business.

[NelisB]

Originally Posted by GT6

It is strange that so many people appear to dismiss the thought of a Korean company daring to enter sportscar racing, the comments often on the lines of "not our sort of car" those same people would have raged against the check of japanese companies being allowed to enter Le Mans. Strange also that many of the manufacturers these same people would welcome produce cars that fail to sell to the public or make such huge losses that only massive subsidies keep them in business.

I think the asian le mans series round at the Injen motorsport park in South Korea might help spark interest from the South Korean manufacturers if it becomes a success.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by GT6

It is strange that so many people appear to dismiss the thought of a Korean company daring to enter sportscar racing, the comments often on the lines of "not our sort of car" those same people would have raged against the check of japanese companies being allowed to enter Le Mans. Strange also that many of the manufacturers these same people would welcome produce cars that fail to sell to the public or make such huge losses that only massive subsidies keep them in business.

I'm sure Hyundai could do something useful with a WEC/LM programme and I wouldn't say no to another manufacturer, but they are a little less inspiring than other names that have been thrown about. I would read articles about a return for Henri with far more enthusiasm and excitement.

Hyundai and LM don't need each other like other manufacturers do, but if Hyundai do show up, then that's a sign that things are very healthy.

It really was interesting to see that they were busy scanning Mike's site. My guess is they were assessing which series to enter to try and spice things up again and elected for the WRC where the opposition probably isn't as tough to crack.

[GT6]

i agree not much competition in WRC but we need companies we deep pockets to provide a real challenge to the established teams and not financially hindered companies that do not have the resources to be competative. I want to see real divelopments rather than uncompetative teams making up the numbers and if we need to bring in new companies previously not considered worthy by the old school then we should ewelcome them with open arms

[Tim the Grey]

All those naysayers might JUST become Hyundai Flag Wavers were they to employ a Msr. Pescarolo to run the show?
Or KIA, or Proton, whoever...

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Tim the Grey

All those naysayers might JUST become Hyundai Flag Wavers were they to employ a Msr. Pescarolo to run the show?
Or KIA, or Proton, whoever...

To be honest, I suspect even the barest of nudges towards activity in sportscars, even be it Hyundai Shipbuilding slapping a decal on somewhere would probably be enough.

You only have to look at how a quiet unassuming approach taken by Toyota last year transformed things from "they'd be as well not bother showing up" when they missed Spa to the genuine favourites they are to many now.

Being realistic is there any manufacturer we wouldn't welcome with open arms and get reasonably excited about?

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by isynge

Being realistic is there any manufacturer we wouldn't welcome with open arms and get reasonably excited about?

Mini?