The broad sunlit uplands of next March. Yeah, really. .

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

IT hardware can be installed in days - but the software doesn't exist in any usuable form. Currently the government systems aren't available for us to test with (because they don't work) and current projections don't have them ready for January 1st. Also we still don't know exactly what information is needed for all of the interfaces we need with the various systems. We're 'best guessing' a lot of stuff at the moment so there's going to need to be rework when we actually find out what's required.

some of the software should exist in theory in case of no deal as the EU would go to WTO status and the software to cover this must already be in use

would have been more difficult if a deal had been agreed as the software would have to be tailor made

on the other hand (sorry if I am repeating this)
in the port of Hamburg, with computer systems and software that has been working for years the queue to get a container cleared by customs is usually 3 days. This means that a trucker has to book slots in advance to anticipate getting a container out quickly
At least this avoids the actual trucks and containers sitting in a real queue for 3 days, we just have a virtual one.
based on this, with nothing working and tested yet and without any trucking companies trained to use such booking systems, I would expect a very painful time for while until procedures are worked out.

The booking system for clearance slots and a reasonably automated customs clearance, with advance filing of documents, is, in my humble opinion as a co-owner of an international trading house, much much more important than the car park, this might be needed but is a necessary evil and not a solution

RudE

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Hi Griff, based on your above post, I think you missed the syntax of the underlying metaphor.

I did too, I just thought the whole lot was a shower of ****



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[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

some of the software should exist in theory in case of no deal as the EU would go to WTO status and the software to cover this must already be in use

Indeed, it once again smacks of a civil service refusing to accept the vote (for righ or wrong).

Originally Posted by Rudernst

would have been more difficult if a deal had been agreed as the software would have to be tailor made

Good point.

Originally Posted by Rudernst

on the other hand (sorry if I am repeating this)
in the port of Hamburg, with computer systems and software that has been working for years the queue to get a container cleared by customs is usually 3 days. This means that a trucke
r has to book slots in advance to anticipate getting a container out quickly
At least this avoids the actual trucks and containers sitting in a real queue for 3 days, we just have a virtual one.
based on this, with nothing working and tested yet and without any trucking companies trained to use such booking systems, I would expect a very painful time for while until procedures are worked out.

Yup and this is what I've witnessed all around the world. That said corrupt customs officials in some (unmentioned) locations can be a pain.

Originally Posted by Rudernst

The booking system for clearance slots and a reasonably automated customs clearance, with advance filing of documents, is, in my humble opinion as a co-owner of an international trading house, much much more important than the car park, this might be needed but is a necessary evil and not a solution

RudE

Again, not rocket science, similar to electronic passports. We need them but they are not restricted to EU borders. Any border where they have the systems can use them.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

some of the software should exist in theory in case of no deal as the EU would go to WTO status and the software to cover this must already be in use

The problem we've got is that the government systems we need to interface with aren't ready - so we can't test anything. The other big headache at the moment is Northern Ireland - there's an article on the bbc website that gives some of the details:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55087956

There's a lot more info about stuff here: https://www.bifa.org/home (if you're suffering from insomnia this will help).

Originally Posted by Rudernst

on the other hand (sorry if I am repeating this)
in the port of Hamburg, with computer systems and software that has been working for years the queue to get a container cleared by customs is usually 3 days. This means that a trucker has to book slots in advance to anticipate getting a container out quickly
At least this avoids the actual trucks and containers sitting in a real queue for 3 days, we just have a virtual one.
based on this, with nothing working and tested yet and without any trucking companies trained to use such booking systems, I would expect a very painful time for while until procedures are worked out.

That's fine for car parts, bricks, lumps of metal, cars etc - but for food (and short life food at that) 3 days is the products entire shelf life. As it stands we're going to have to submit the electronic paperwork to the port 24 hours before the truck arrives - at the moment we don't have the stock 24 hours before the truck gets to the port. So you're going to lose a day of shelf life whilst the product sits on the warehouse floor for a day (currently the warehouse operation holds no stock - it's pick to zero every day).

There's going to be a huge amount of waste (certainly at the start of the new rules - hopefully it'll get streamlined). We've seen before when the tunnel has been closed or the ports are on strike/blockaded that our trucks in the queue eventually give up as the product inside becomes worthless (particularly true of short life chilled product). The worry is that the loss of shelf life and the extra costs involved just makes the operation unprofitable.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

on the other hand (sorry if I am repeating this)
in the port of Hamburg, with computer systems and software that has been working for years the queue to get a container cleared by customs is usually 3 days. This means that a trucker has to book slots in advance to anticipate getting a container out quickly
At least this avoids the actual trucks and containers sitting in a real queue for 3 days, we just have a virtual one.
based on this, with nothing working and tested yet and without any trucking companies trained to use such booking systems, I would expect a very painful time for while until procedures are worked out.
RudE

I believe the truckers booking in advance (the ports charge a fee BTW) is the system for a lot of UK ports now although it seems to be falling down in some places from what I've read. When I drove a container truck many years ago you'd just turn up and queue, sometimes for three days although back then in the 70s and early 80s the containers were near enough already cleared customs as they came off the boat. Perishables like bananas for instance would come straight off the boat and onto the back of a truck to be delivered

[Robert Farrell]

Without,of course, opening a whole new can of worms!
What the majority of those involved in club level motor sport need to know is, for example, how all this stuff affects two blokes in a transit van, towing a racing car on their way to Spa?

[Peter Mallett]

Indeed, a good question I'm working on the basis that if you aren't going on business you can apply for a carnet which can be checked in both directions should the authorities desire. Where the carnet comes from is a different matter.

[Bob Pomeroy]

Having ploughed my way through

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets

I think you would need a CPD carnet (see section 5) - but I could be wrong!!

[Bob Pomeroy]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Indeed, a good question I'm working on the basis that if you aren't going on business you can apply for a carnet which can be checked in both directions should the authorities desire. Where the carnet comes from is a different matter.

I think that this explains the different carnets available and their sources:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-104-ata-and-cpd-carnets/notice-104-ata-and-cpd-carnets

[Peter Mallett]

Ok, got this from Bob Pomeroy,

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Ok, got this from Bob Pomeroy,

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets

That is a handy link Peter.
Without spending hours reading it does,nt look very different to when I was doing a lot of European events in the 80s until Schengen took most of the border customs posts away.
The hassle then was a duplicate sheet for in & out of each country , which was a lot of writing if it was like , France into Belgium into Holland into Germany , and then the same for return .
From memory I used to get the forms from a local HM C&E office and don,t think they cost hardly anything . But have heard that they might cost money now .

[MGDavid]

It's not hours to read it, but it doesn't answer all questions either.
The ATA carnet part states -
'that the carnet is presented to customs for endorsement each time the goods enter or leave a country or customs territory (for customs purposes the UK and EU are treated as a single territory)'
which AIUI is not the case from 1jan21 so it's either presupposing a free movement deal, or doesn't help us as they don't know what will happen.
If the race car is road registered then the CPD carnet applies (see 5.2) and this is the one that the FIA have currently only authorised CARS Ltd to issue for UK users as mentioned in previous posts, but MSUK are looking at alternative suppliers.
It is not clear whether one might need a CPD carnet for a road-registered race car and an ATA carnet for all the spares and tools and pit equipment that go with it.

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

It's not hours to read it, but it doesn't answer all questions either.
The ATA carnet part states -
'that the carnet is presented to customs for endorsement each time the goods enter or leave a country or customs territory (for customs purposes the UK and EU are treated as a single territory)'
which AIUI is not the case from 1jan21 so it's either presupposing a free movement deal, or doesn't help us as they don't know what will happen.
If the race car is road registered then the CPD carnet applies (see 5.2) and this is the one that the FIA have currently only authorised CARS Ltd to issue for UK users as mentioned in previous posts, but MSUK are looking at alternative suppliers.
It is not clear whether one might need a CPD carnet for a road-registered race car and an ATA carnet for all the spares and tools and pit equipment that go with it.

Back in the day I was in the C&E offices going over some details with them .
They said at the time that the car did not need to be on the carnet because it was registered and in my name .But the carnet was needed for all of the spares etc .
Looking on this https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets it seems to say that a CPD is only needed for some countries that are not in Europe .
So a bit more reading up might be needed to find out how it will all work next year .

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Tel 911S

,,,,,,,,
Looking on this https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-cpd-carnets it seems to say that a CPD is only needed for some countries that are not in Europe .
So a bit more reading up might be needed to find out how it will all work next year .

Not possible at this time - the document is dated last February so is the same as was discussed here some months ago. They/we simply don't yet know what the situation will be after 1Jan21 - either some sort of 'deal' or not - so we still have to wait and see. One might optimistically think that somewhere there are two possible updates to this document, and the relevant one will be published when the new UK-EU arrangements are decided.

[S griffin]

I think it's close to impossible to predict what sort of deal will be announced. No doubt there is already the small matter of how we can get this country back on track after what has happened this year, so Brexit has almost been a side issue this year it seems. With uncertain times ahead it's a case of wait and see and just hope enough people get the good end of the stick in terms of a deal.

It's been easy to forget about the whole January 1st 2021, but we know it will still happen, if only we could more info ASAP and then we can then start to plan what to do from there and also can prepare ourselves for any potential issues in the future, rather than worry about what might or might not happen as a result of this. All I hope is we don't get too complacent about this unceratin future, because it is that tbh

[midgetman]

Meh there's something no-one foresaw. Just had an email increasing my processing fees for non-European cards. European ones have decreased so could I please ask everyone to pay with a card drawing on their European account?

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

They/we simply don't yet know what the situation will be after 1Jan21 - either some sort of 'deal' or not - so we still have to wait and see. One might optimistically think that somewhere there are two possible updates to this document, and the relevant one will be published when the new UK-EU arrangements are decided.

That's what's so **** isn't it? A month to go and no-one knows what's going on. It doesn't impact me directly thankfully, beyond the increase in processing fees, but for big international traders this is an awful time.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by midgetman

That's what's so **** isn't it? A month to go and no-one knows what's going on. It doesn't impact me directly thankfully, beyond the increase in processing fees, but for big international traders this is an awful time.

why? when is the first big international race meeting in the EU in 2021?
March? April? May? Surely a big international trader can sort themselves out in 3 months? And for general haulage there have been endless radio ads lately giving advice on what needs to be done.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Meh there's something no-one foresaw. Just had an email increasing my processing fees for non-European cards. European ones have decreased so could I please ask everyone to pay with a card drawing on their European account?

No longer have a card processing account but I don't understand this - who on earth do you use as a processing agent?

[midgetman]

Company.called Square. It's a bit more expensive than some but the POS and online services are first class. Quality not price is important at times

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[john ruston]

Buyer beware
Had some quotes for boarder clearance.
Comical. It’s just a normal forwarding /clearance agents daily job and people should not be robbed

[John Elwin]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Buyer beware
Had some quotes for boarder clearance.
Comical. It’s just a normal forwarding /clearance agents daily job and people should not be robbed

Be careful how you clear-out those boarders - they might rob you!

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Buyer beware
Had some quotes for boarder clearance.
Comical. It’s just a normal forwarding /clearance agents daily job and people should not be robbed

John, this is quite simple, at the moment there is more demand than supply for customs clearance, so prices go up.
The logistics industry will adjust and supply will increase because of the healthy profit margings currently on the table and that will lead to increased supply and will force the prices down in the longer run


RudE

[zefarelly]

It all seems quite simple at the moment, makes you wonder why anyone wants it changed.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

It all seems quite simple at the moment, makes you wonder why anyone wants it changed.

Because, for a start, open borders work both ways.
Also, making it easier for the hoi polloi to go on holiday is not worth £11 billion p.a. (2018 figure from ONS)