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9 May 2003, 02:57 (Ref:594138)
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#1 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 422
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Alms
Is it just me or is Bill France and Nascar afraid of the ALMS?
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9 May 2003, 03:06 (Ref:594140)
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#2 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 15
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I believe it is just you.
Entierly different format and consituencies --both in fans and manufacturers. We can dream for the day though. But you were probably just being facetious. |
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__________________
So it goes
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9 May 2003, 15:16 (Ref:594675)
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#3 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 334
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Bill France may be slightly irritated by the ALMS, but NASCAR is not. The only reason France cares is that his family owns the Grand American Road Racing Association. As you know, Grand-Am is struggling in the face of strong competition from the ALMS. While neither of the series is exactly blowing up the t.v. numbers, it's widely acknowledged that Don Panoz's series is in a much stronger position than Grand-am because of his alliance with the A.C.O. The ALMS could conceivably put the final nails in the Grand-Am coffin...but that's an entirely different (and old) debate. So, in short, Bill France is not afraid of the ALMS; how could you be afraid of any other series when NASCAR pulls in at least 25 million viewers every weekend? I think he regards the rival sportscar series as a cockroach, but roaches are hard to kill...
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__________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer." - Thoreau
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10 May 2003, 07:26 (Ref:595151)
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#4 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 495
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NASCAR has nothing to fear from anyone, not even F1. Would I be exagerating if I said NASCAR is the most company in the world? Microsoft excluded.
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__________________
"You always have to be smarter than the person next you"-J.C. Pringle "No matter where you go, there you are"-Pigkiller
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10 May 2003, 15:15 (Ref:595410)
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#5 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 372
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????
"it's widely acknowledged that Don Panoz's series is in a much stronger position than Grand-am because of his alliance with the A.C.O."
Right. Is this according to the fans or is it the teams that widely acknowledge that Panoz is in a much stronger position? Last edited by MaxSport; 10 May 2003 at 15:20. |
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10 May 2003, 15:31 (Ref:595420)
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#6 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 372
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"The ALMS could conceivably put the final nails in the Grand-Am coffin."
What do you base that comment on? None of the potential DP buyers at Phoenix are looking at LMP-1 cars for 2004 because they can't afford it. If anything there are LMP teams thinking about DP's. BTW-How many LMP cars do you think will be at Road Atlanta in late June? The ACO connection doesn't help much if people can't afford the cars. |
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10 May 2003, 17:48 (Ref:595518)
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#7 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Quote:
2 Audis 2 Panoz 1 Lola B2K/10 1 Amerisuites R&S 2 Dyson MGs 1 Intersport MG 1 Pilbeam Then mix in Leinhardt's Dallara, a possible factory R&S, assuming all is well with them, Melanie Patterson's Lola B2K/40. Did Archangel ever sell their cars? Last edited by paul-collins; 10 May 2003 at 17:51. |
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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10 May 2003, 18:18 (Ref:595549)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,147
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Just realized I left Nasamax off the definite list. Also, what is Team Sezio doing this year? And I really wish the DBA would come over here, but I guess they'll run FIASCC in the SR1 category.
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__________________
... Since all men live in darkness, who believes something is not a test of whether it is true or false. I have spent years trying to get people to ask simple questions: What is the evidence, and what does it mean? -Bill James
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12 May 2003, 02:03 (Ref:596513)
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#9 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 334
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MaxSport, the DPs don't help Grand-Am much if no one wants to see them. Personally, I'd rather watch lawn mower racing.
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__________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer." - Thoreau
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12 May 2003, 19:09 (Ref:597276)
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#10 | |||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 334
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Re: ????
Quote:
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__________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer." - Thoreau
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13 May 2003, 01:36 (Ref:597522)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 12,451
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Judging by the fact that twice as many of them raced at Sebring as raced at Daytona, I'd say it was probably the teams.
 Although of course MaxSport believes that everyone should sell their cars and give him the money because at the end of the day, the money is all that really matters. To him. |
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__________________
"If we won all the time, we'd be as unpopular as Ferrari, and we want to avoid that. We enjoy being a team that everybody likes." Flavio Briatore
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13 May 2003, 21:25 (Ref:598338)
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#12 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 37
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Apart from Le Mans the Rolex 24 hours of Daytona used to be such a great race and now with no proper prototypes it has been wrecked!!!!!! it is now a thing of the past, shame on you poeple who have ruined it.
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14 May 2003, 02:59 (Ref:598432)
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#13 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 334
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Blame the Frances. They've tried to use the stock car formula on Grand-Am and have managed to repulse the vast majority of the sportscar faithful.
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__________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer." - Thoreau
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14 May 2003, 14:31 (Ref:598787)
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#14 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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My Thoughts:
My general assessments are exactly the same as danhx and chevyguy on many points they make above....and the first part of the comment by Liz concerning where teams are choosing to race...the secnd part is more personal and I don't want to get into that... I will agree with MaxSport...to a degree...on the money issue as a factor that will greatly impact this entire sport given the economic climate we're in right now, especially next year, if the 2004 equipment proves to be superior to the cars that will be "grandfathered in" under 2003 specs.... However, these are facts that each potential owner would weigh in this decision: 1. I don't know the price of a FabCar, Picchio, Crawford, Doran or MultiMax Chassis, but the Riley & Scott DP is listed at $390,000 as a full package, with a kit, minus engine at $235,000...and although a price is not listed on their site, I have read on various sites (including Mulsanne Mike's) that the LMP 900 runs about $500,000. I remember from last year, that R&S also did a kit, minus engine, for substantially less (about $150,000 to $175,000 less)on the LMP 900 car. 2. AmeriSuites bought a used R&S from Dyson (for less than $500,000, no doubt) and worked with the Rileys to get the aero upgrades for the chassis.... *** Since Money is Money, but the whole big picture has to be looked at, I can't help but ask the following: 1. If you're spending easily over a million at a minimum to race, and you can buy a Used LMP with an aero upgrade package for a cost that is at least fairly competitive with the cost of a new DP chassis (within $50,000 or so), and race in a series that could lead to running at LM, has more visibility than Grand Am, better fan support, and a TV package that will take some of its races onto network television, thus make you more attractive to sponsors... ****Why Buy the DP, when the Used LMP with Upgrades doesn't cost that much more, but the potential upsides (attracting sponsors, network Tv exposure, more fans, etc.) will more than be made up by any extra cost incurred???? ****Even if you buy both products new and complete from R&S...waht is the $110,000 difference, when compared to the potential upsides listed above, and your spending millions to run a prototype anyway???? and Most Important: ****If the extra money, when compared to the potentail benefits is that big of an issue or a risk for you as a race team, WHY ARE YOU RACING PROTOTYPE....Run a GT Package instead....ESPECILLY IN GRAND AM UNDER THEIR CURRENT RULES WHY: Because the DP that you're going to spend almost as much money on, because of the Grand Am Rules, is going to be dumbed down and Dogged Slow to be Equal to the GT's anyway (see "Daytona Results"), You're wasting the extra money on a "Pseudo-Prototype" that no one wants to watch and is about as fast and competitive as a Cheaper GT car anyway.... WHY SPEND MORE ON A CAR THAT WILL NOT GIVE YOU A CLEAR ADVANTAGE??? When viewed in this light, especially with the DP vs. GT in terms of performance in that Series, the Money Issue doesn't hold water...and the DP is a waste...Period.... |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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14 May 2003, 16:23 (Ref:598915)
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#15 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 285
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The DP buyers are all coming.
10,000 have submitted applications. Everyone has tested the Focus and has ordered one. Cegwa will be back. Multimatic will be running the full season. Yes, it will. |
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14 May 2003, 18:28 (Ref:599003)
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#16 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 334
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Where'd you get that number of 10,000 applications, and what have they submitted applications for? Are they designers seeking to build cars or teams trying to buy the various chassis. Ten thousand seems a bit high for either case so i'd really like to know where you heard/saw/read that.
There haven't really been that many people that have tested the Focus DP. I think some new people drove it at Putnam Park, but who else aside from them? |
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__________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer." - Thoreau
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14 May 2003, 18:40 (Ref:599013)
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#17 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
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H16 IS telling the truth really, I mean it!
 
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14 May 2003, 18:40 (Ref:599014)
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#18 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
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dan - I do believe that you would call that post by H16 sarcasm.
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14 May 2003, 18:56 (Ref:599030)
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#19 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I work in the entertainment industry and we have a saying that is quite applicable here:
"You can't polish a turd." The France Family, and the Grand Am officials, and everyone who bought a DP, and everybody who went to the "Summits" can try to spin this, or candy-coat it, or hype it all they want.... But the statement above sums up the reality of the situation.... People who enjoy sportscar racing, given a choice, will not watch or buy tickets to Grand Am racing under the current approach to the series.... The empty seats at their events would back me up on this...people are not showing up for a reason...many have been stated above.... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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14 May 2003, 19:16 (Ref:599047)
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#20 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 334
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Thanks Fogelhund...I've been relatively unable to detect jokes lately...Now i feel like an arse...
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__________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer." - Thoreau
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15 May 2003, 05:07 (Ref:599331)
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#21 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 285
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More additional information has come up.
Roger Penske has ordered two Fabcar/Toyotas as Marlboro can only advertise in one series and doesn't want to miss the next the Daytona Prototype in 2004. Michael Schumacher secrectly tested the Focus and is apparently very interested in what he sees. Panoz have plans for a front engined Daytona Prototype. Lotus are building a DP based on their stillborn GTP effort which will race next year. Really. No, we promise. Certainly. |
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15 May 2003, 06:34 (Ref:599365)
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#22 | ||
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Rookie
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 24
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Quote:
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15 May 2003, 13:24 (Ref:599716)
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#23 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,618
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[going off topic]
one of the ALMS support races next year will supposedly be supertruck racing with the giant tractor trailer cabs [back on topic] The ALMS racing is just so much more interesting than the Grand am to watch. The DP's are going to bomb, there isn't going to be enough intrest in a spec series being the lead race to hold a TV broadcast audience. |
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__________________
I refuse to let fact get in the way of my opinion
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15 May 2003, 15:20 (Ref:599815)
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#24 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 334
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Roll on STRANA!! I doubt that super truck racing will draw that same crowds in North America as it does in Europe, but i hope they prove to be successful enough to stay around for a while.
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__________________
"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer." - Thoreau
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15 May 2003, 21:40 (Ref:600336)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Actually, NASCAR better watch out!!!!!
Hooo-Weeee!!! Big Rig Tractors swappin' paint on a road course!!! Maybe Kyle Petty, and a few other over-the-hill NASCAR types can get a second life in their careers in the STRANA series.... I've watched them on Speed Channel....I'm waiting for Bulldozer Road Racing.... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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