Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[Racing Harz]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Yes, factory teams are explicitly banned. GT3 is customer racing.

MAybe you should visit the Spa 24h and count the factory teams.
Hint: There are many.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

It would seem not. It's no secret that the likes of the Nurburgring 24 hour, DTM, IMSA GTD and so forth are full of unofficial manufacturer backed teams.

Of course they get money, drivers and other support from manufacturers.

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Yes, factory teams are explicitly banned. GT3 is customer racing.

It's supposed to be the same in TCR too but then they allowed Cyan to have a complete 4 car factory team and they didn't sell a car to a real customer so...

You're right, they are explicitly banned.

But who are Manthey Racing?

[bathurst77]

So if in 10 years time there is no "family ICE sedan" or hatch suitable to be ATC/Supercar silhouette, maybe they go historic look alike.

Modern Gen 3 type space frame purpose built race car
with mix and match of commercially built new crate engines Front engine, 4turbo, 6 v8, or rotary running green fuel, h pattern 5 - 6 speed box, rwd, rhd..
and fibre glass shells that look like modified Falcons commodores a9x, chargers.... camaro or mustang etc - bit like milder funny cars

Rather than make all engines the same power and torque, use old fashioned tyre, and brake size, car weight and aero to keep different engine and body style competitive.

We could end up with light 4 cyl pretend "bluebird/bmws" or 6 xu1 fast across the top, then v8 XB/XE/EF/BA, A9X/VL/VR/VE or 6/v8 chargers blowing down conrod... making awesome noise smell and flames... passing and repassing

More interesting then mustang vs camaro look alikes with same chasis and engines tweaked to be the same.
If its fast, loud spectacular and close competition, people will watch, and if lots of people watch, sponsors will pay for signs.
And if sponsors pay, teams will have money to build cars and race. And these space frames go for years offsetting costs.

[GTRMagic]

I bet you can fit a Tesla Model3 around a Gen3 chassis skeleton...

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

I bet you can fit a Tesla Model3 around a Gen3 chassis skeleton...

As long as its not a bloody twin cab mini truck (no they are NOT "utes")

[bathurst77]

moved to whos on 1st

[GTRMagic]

So.. with MSR and now T18 assembling their own Gen3 chassis..

..does this now move on up the timeframe at 888RE to get the new chassis to Boost?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

..does this now move on up the timeframe at 888RE to get the new chassis to Boost?

Just kind of irrelevant when there isn't a TRC available for him to buy.

[bloggs]

With Gen3 coming online next year, are they still going to use the Milwaukee battery powered rattle guns? there has not been anything that I have read of late about it. Anyone know anything? GTR?

[V8 Fireworks]

Ford Performance global head of aerodynamics was present at the VCAT test and was unsatisfied that the procedure and results established aerodynamic parity. Ford Performance has therefore rejected the results.
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/gen3-aer...ng-after-vcat/

Concerning news!

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Ford Performance global head of aerodynamics was present at the VCAT test and was unsatisfied that the procedure and results established aerodynamic parity. Ford Performance has therefore rejected the results.
https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/gen3-aer...ng-after-vcat/

Concerning news!

Supercars demonstrating their bias towards the GM product already?.......doesn't surprise me somehow.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Supercars demonstrating their bias towards the GM product already?.......doesn't surprise me somehow.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Sandgroper

Care to elaborate on why Ford Performance shouldn't be concerned?

Ford Performance were very unhappy with the multiple cuts made to their Mustang in 2019 (not to mention the lead added to the roof), a car designed in good faith to the letter of regulations and fully approved initially, and the multiple concessions granted to the rival in 2019. Hence it is only logical that they should be cautious about making sure their car is not unduely penalised again.

We are disappointed that we have had to make changes to the cars, however we respect the Supercars technical department and will comply. The changes to the Ford Mustang Supercar are specific to the rear wing and undertray. Most notably, the size of the rear-wing endplates will be reduced, while the Gurney flap will be reduced in height and undertray in length.

We will make these changes ahead of the next round so we can quickly understand the affect they’ll have on Mustang to give us the best chance of maintaining our pace. Mustang is run by some of the best teams in the series and that’s not technical parity, it is the sporting performance of the teams that race the car.

Our car was signed off and homologated by Supercars ahead of the 2019 season, however whilst we understand these changes are in the interest of the sport, we expect to run the rest of the season on track unchanged from this specification.

- Mark Rushbrook, Ford Performance Global Director
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/04/23...g-aero-tweaks/

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Ford Performance were very unhappy with the multiple cuts made to their Mustang in 2019 (not to mention the lead added to the roof), a car designed in good faith to the letter of regulations and fully approved initially, and the multiple concessions granted to the rival in 2019. Hence it is only logical that they should be cautious about making sure their car is not unduely penalised again.

Please watch the video of Ryan Story on Enforcer and the Dude.

They built that car with FULL knowledge it was not in parity and having already built the parts that would eventually be ratified in mid-2019.

Mark Rushbrook's song and dance was just to justify the $30m or so they spent to destroy the rulebook.

But why should we be surprised that billionaire and professional grey-area exploiter Roger Penkse did that?

He does it everywhere.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Mark Rushbrook's song and dance was just to justify the $30m or so they spent to destroy the rulebook.

That's a horrible take. If it complies with the rules, it complies with the rules. Surely it is up to the competitor to come back and homologate a better package for the following season?

[GTRMagic]

I am waiting for the Supra, with a NASCAR inspired TRD engine installed...

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Care to elaborate on why Ford Performance shouldn't be concerned?

Ford Performance were very unhappy with the multiple cuts made to their Mustang in 2019 (not to mention the lead added to the roof), a car designed in good faith to the letter of regulations and fully approved initially, and the multiple concessions granted to the rival in 2019. Hence it is only logical that they should be cautious about making sure their car is not unduely penalised again.


- Mark Rushbrook, Ford Performance Global Director
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/04/23...g-aero-tweaks/

The mustang won next to nothing after supercars' multiple attempts at nobbling it while the commodore went on it's merry way winning almost everything and nothing said, it seemed to be a case of deliberate interference to get the commodore to the front.........ford should be very concerned about their dealings with supercars.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

The mustang won next to nothing after supercars' multiple attempts at nobbling it while the commodore went on it's merry way winning almost everything and nothing said, it seemed to be a case of deliberate interference to get the commodore to the front.........ford should be very concerned about their dealings with supercars.

Really?

Adjustments made mid-2019. Scotty Mac won the championship
2020 Scotty Mac won again with Cam Waters second. 2020 also Will Davo in a single car team and Chaz were both ridiculously fast at times.

Since then Cam Waters very fast but inconsistent and crashes often. Too many pay drivers in Tickford to know what the cars are really capable of.
DJR also capable of amazing speed but equally some weekends nowhere. When they are fast they have constant pit screwups and ridiculous strategy calls.
Grove also show there is nothing wrong with the pace of the car.

So 2 championships... "next to nothing"

You need to tune up the world's smallest violin mate.

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Really?

Adjustments made mid-2019. Scotty Mac won the championship
2020 Scotty Mac won again with Cam Waters second. 2020 also Will Davo in a single car team and Chaz were both ridiculously fast at times.

Since then Cam Waters very fast but inconsistent and crashes often. Too many pay drivers in Tickford to know what the cars are really capable of.
DJR also capable of amazing speed but equally some weekends nowhere. When they are fast they have constant pit screwups and ridiculous strategy calls.
Grove also show there is nothing wrong with the pace of the car.

So 2 championships... "next to nothing"

You need to tune up the world's smallest violin mate.

I don't care much for the Ford V Holden tribal crap, but pretty much this.

The race results only tell part of the story. Supercars knows this, the teams know this, and the drivers know this. The only ones bleating about it are the clueless fanbase.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I don't care much for the Ford V Holden tribal crap, but pretty much this.

The race results only tell part of the story. Supercars knows this, the teams know this, and the drivers know this. The only ones bleating about it are the clueless fanbase.

If the support of Ford Performance is crucial to the category, which it is, why would the administrators antagonise them?

The ATCC needs manufacturers more than the manufacturers need the ATCC!

Cutting down Ford Performance's carefully designed package reeks of political ill-will towards Ford Performance.

Why not let it run with the original aero package and no ballast and see what the results are? In full good faith and support of Ford Performance?

Similarly, when Ford Performance are observiving the Gen 3 VCAT and are unhappy with the process and results, what do you do? You do what you need to do to make sure Ford Performance are happy! Add some drag to the rival car, trim some drag from the Mustang, make sure it is spot on!

That you have a process and your major manufacturer is unhappy is untenable. They are not obliged to compete in the ATCC, they have a Mustang GT3 car now with an independent of balance of performance applied for better or worse...

[Umai Naa]

Attack the post, not the poster.

You can't paritise driver errors and team inconsistencies. Supercars looks at more than just race results to determine whether an adjustment is needed.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Attack the post, not the poster.

You can't paritise driver errors and team inconsistencies. Supercars looks at more than just race results to determine whether an adjustment is needed.

Driver errors occur when the car has been nobbled and the driver has to push harder to stay in touch, I would have thought that this is obvious........and he's still a w*nker.

[Umai Naa]

I think that's a bit of a stretch.

They look at lap times, average speed, and numerous other measurable metrics. You can't quantify excuses.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I think that's a bit of a stretch.

They look at lap times, average speed, and numerous other measurable metrics. You can't quantify excuses.

So firstly why not redo the VCAT test with the Commodore wheel arch vents that were never tested?

A car that kills tyres does sound awfully familiar to the AU Falcon... Did it have parity? If so, why was this front lip package added in 2003 yet with no adjustments required to VX Commodore.

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Supercars looks at more than just race results to determine whether an adjustment is needed.

Ford Performance were obviously, rightly, concerned about why on Earth an adjustment against their Mustang package was needed so urgently, and similarly have concerns about the Gen 3 VCAT test they observed.

The participation of Ford does not seem to be valued to the level it should be...

By comparison, Indycar goes to great lengths to ensure both Chevrolet and Honda are happy with the package. An adversarial approach against the valued OEM auto manufacturer partner is obviously grossly unwise!