Manufactured Competition is it Good for the Sport?

[Airhead]

This season has been more interesting than most of the last ten, and that is even with one guy winning most of the races. We can thank diffusers' and the only when you are within a second on the nominated part of the track rule, plus our old inequitable friend KERS and into the mix come mandated rules for the changing of tires with large differences between each specification of tire.

I might have missed some of the other changes but it has increased the overtaking and hence entertainment value enormously. But says Hanrahan "is this sport?" Or just open wheeler NASCAR?

[gregtummer]

Don't like the DRS. It is too gimmicky.

Remove the rev limiters on the engines and let the cars slipstream past each other.

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Don't like the DRS. It is too gimmicky.

Remove the rev limiters on the engines and let the cars slipstream past each other.

It's not simply the rev limiters that cause the problem - the teams have a free choice of gear ratios - they just need to make the right calculations and choices....

[Adam43]

When was the rev limit introduced? And Monza the year before, infinite overtaking?

Also, I don't think NASCAR has anything as contrived as a device that gives the car behind an advantage. Although the only think I remember like that was a arcade game which seemed to give the guy in second more power than the leader!

I'm not hating it, because the overtaker tended to be the faster on their own anyway. So it isn't producing results that seem wrong. However it has removed something.

[Marbot]

If you remove the limiters, you'll have another pointless engine war.

Same thing applies to other 'limitations' in F1.

F1/FOTA/FIA are simply looking at ways and means that make the racing less processional, whilst at the same time keeping car performance above the level of 'lesser' series. They seem to have done that.

[Purist]

The 18,000rpm limit has been in place at least since the start of 2009, if not since the introduction of the V8s in 2007. Prior to that, I think there was a 20,000rpm limit on the V10s for 2006, and that may have been introduced in 2005 actually.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I'm not hating it, because the overtaker tended to be the faster on their own anyway. So it isn't producing results that seem wrong. However it has removed something.

That's what I think also... it has removed something.

[Marbot]

It certainly seems to have removed a lack of overtaking, that's if statistics are anything to go by. Although, I would personally put most of that down to the tyres.

Maybe it's removed a bit of purity? Maybe they both have?

Maybe the fastest (Red Bull/Vettel) is just the fastest, and everything else should just get stuck behind whatever it gets stuck behind?

[JeremySmith]

The DRS, it's very much a gimmick in my book, I would vote for getting rid of it...KERS I never cared for this 'push to pass" idea and it is problematic from a technical point of view..

The tyres are okay and have improved the the racing...

[Bononi]

Yes the tyres...

[rpolinski]

I prefer the KERS to the DRS as at least there is strategy to KERS. When to use it, when not to.

[Oran Park Forever]

The artificial enhancements like KERS & DRS & whatever other acronyms they'll think of next have taken the art, if not skill out of the over taking move. Where it used to be like a chess move, it's now more like Playstation (literally!). Push a button & Shazam!........job done! Certainly an example of the modern day "instant gratification" generation. Drivers know they don't need to work for it as much, so it suits the modern version of F1. I prefer chess myself!

What it's also done is create scenarios where drivers are performing passing moves on sections of some circuits where previously were not possible. That can be seen as a good thing but I feel a BIG accident is not too far away if they continue to thread the needle whilst having their right thumb buried in the KERS or DRS (or both!) button! Two wheels on the grass at 180mph won't always turn out pretty I feel.

note: "BIG" isn't an acronym......well not yet anyway!


.

[stripedcat]

KERS always seemed to be gimmicky to me. DRS - whilst not the ideal solution has at least opened some races up. The old 'dirty air' problem is at least put a sticking plaster on with the use of DRS. At some circuits the zones are too long.

It is not my preferred solution. I think that maybe going back to a more ground effect based car(which in theory would produce less turbulence) might be better than DRS.

I am intrigued by the return of turbo charging. It might bring back the multiple boost rates. That can make some of the passing look a bit easy. Watching some old F1 races in the turbo era and you don't realise sometimes when the driver turned up the boost. It also did add some strategy as it had to be used wisely, due to fuel consumption.

[wnut]

DRS simply negates the effect of wake turbulance on the following car.
I did not support it initially, but I think it is the best thing that has happened to F1 for many years. Using wings to generate artificial downforce is artificial in the first place, and anything that prevents the running of boring parades has got to be good.

F1 is massively improved by the advent of DRS.
Until the wings are banned we are stuck with it, otherwise the parade is just plain boring. This year; Monza alone probably; has given us more decent dicing, passing and racing than we have seen in total in the decade preceding it!

The drivers are also developing racing passing and tactical skills.
The dice between Schumacher and Hamilton alone should provide complete proof of the DRS concept.

[Airhead]

As Bon said - hi mate - yes the tires apply to everyone so does KERS and DRS - it is the later that get to me, here I am a good 0.9 seconds faster than Vettel (yes I know but I can dream, and internet dreams are very cheap indeed), then we hit the straight and the useless bugger blasts past me in the braking zone due to DRS.

That ain't right Madge.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by AMoffat

As Bon said - hi mate - yes the tires apply to everyone so does KERS and DRS - it is the later that get to me, here I am a good 0.9 seconds faster than Vettel (yes I know but I can dream, and internet dreams are very cheap indeed), then we hit the straight and the useless bugger blasts past me in the braking zone due to DRS.

That ain't right Madge.

If they confer such a big advantage you are at liberty to just blow past him on the next lap.

So you prefer that the car that is 1/10000 of a second faster than the rest gets an advantageous positon at the start and then keeps the rest of the grid behind it by virtue of the wake it generates.
Nothing like watching the cars parading around in qualifying order separated by a respectful distance! For 80 laps!

[Airhead]

Originally Posted by wnut

If they confer such a big advantage you are at liberty to just blow past him on the next lap.

So you prefer that the car that is 1/10000 of a second faster than the rest gets an advantageous positon at the start and then keeps the rest of the grid behind it by virtue of the wake it generates.
Nothing like watching the cars parading around in qualifying order separated by a respectful distance! For 80 laps!

You heard of Darwinism?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by AMoffat

You heard of Darwinism?

20 reliability trials; survival of the fittest; a year would hardly provide spell binding viewing!

[Paradise City]

I don't like DRS. I like it as a stop gap so they can grab the aerodynamic issues by the horns when the financial oportunity arises but it looks like DRS will be a permanent thing. It's far too gimmicky and contrived for my taste. Activation zones and all that irritate me.

However F1 only stops being a sport and becomes trivial entertainment if there's reverse grids/success ballast. Save for drivers holding back in quali to 'save tires' there isn't that and for that I am grateful.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by AMoffat

hi mate

Hi mate long time no see ! How's Luke ?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I don't like DRS. I like it as a stop gap so they can grab the aerodynamic issues by the horns when the financial oportunity arises but it looks like DRS will be a permanent thing. It's far too gimmicky and contrived for my taste. Activation zones and all that irritate me.

If you remove a cart load of down force, you'll then have fans moaning about how F1 cars are hardly any faster than any other series.

The DRS allows F1 cars to be much faster than other series (because, above all else, aero is the biggest performance differentiator regardless of differences in engine power, etc), and still allows them to overtake, despite the fact that the wake created by the huge amounts of aero will always work against that happening.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

If you remove a cart load of down force, you'll then have fans moaning about how F1 cars are hardly any faster than any other series.

The DRS allows F1 cars to be much faster than other series (because, above all else, aero is the biggest performance differentiator regardless of differences in engine power, etc), and still allows them to overtake, despite the fact that the wake created by the huge amounts of aero will always work against that happening.

I'm very worried about the other series.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

I'm very worried about the other series.

Personally, I couldn't give two figs if F1 ended up 10 seconds per lap slower than a GP2 car. Other series aren't called F1.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Personally, I couldn't give two figs if F1 ended up 10 seconds per lap slower than a GP2 car. Other series aren't called F1.

But then the drivers would all want to race in GP2!!

The problem with, as some have requested in the past, wanting pure racing, is that its impossible (in F1 - try FFord instead). And not for the reasons most would quote, but for the reason that the cars would be so good that the drivers would not be able to drive them. With pure aero, pure engines, pure tyres, cornering G force would be in double figures. No-one can survive that for any length of time. Of course, they could just drive them from simulators. Would that be acceptable?

The FIA (bless their little cottons) seem to doing a good job - keeping the car speeds up, keeping the spectacle up, and keeping the safety levels up, all whilst keeping the costs down.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JamesH

But then the drivers would all want to race in GP2!!

Maybe. But then it would only be necessary for any other series to make its cars faster in order to attract the best drivers.

Rally cars aren't necessarily the fastest cars out there, but they are considered to be the most difficult cars to drive in competition.

Many compare F1 cars with IRL cars or Superleague cars or whatever. But the fact is than any of these 'other' series could have much faster cars than F1 currently has by simply adopting old technology such has ABS brakes, traction control, the 2004 F1 technical regulations, etc.

Cosworth could supply their 'old' 20,000rpm V10 for a fairly low cost (but Superleagues 750bhp V12 would suffice) and practically any 2004 F1 car design would be suitably quick enough. Add ABS, Push-to-pass, 2004 F1 tyres (but without the grooves!), etc, and Bob's your uncle!