[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[Richard C]

So if you look at both the statement from Claire and the articles about this, it says that the Williams family is stepping back from F1. Additionally the focus seems to be primarily on Claire, but clearly Frank is mentioned. But no mention of Jonathan. Its my understanding he has been running the Williams Heritage collection and that was part of the collateral with the Latifi family. But an earlier post is saying that Dorilton has paid off the Latifi loan, so I assume Dorilton owns the collection along with the F1 team.

In short, where is Jonathan in all of this? Why is he not mentioned in any of this?

On a side note, I am currently unable to reach either the Williams F1 or Williams Heritage websites. Not sure if that is me or them. Maybe reworking the site, maybe load issues? (Edit, sites are up, must have been temporary)

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

So if you look at both the statement from Claire and the articles about this, it says that the Williams family is stepping back from F1. Additionally the focus seems to be primarily on Claire, but clearly Frank is mentioned. But no mention of Jonathan. Its my understanding he has been running the Williams Heritage collection and that was part of the collateral with the Latifi family. But an earlier post is saying that Dorilton has paid off the Latifi loan, so I assume Dorilton owns the collection along with the F1 team.

In short, where is Jonathan in all of this? Why is he not mentioned in any of this?

On a side note, I am currently unable to reach either the Williams F1 or Williams Heritage websites. Not sure if that is me or them. Maybe reworking the site, maybe load issues? (Edit, sites are up, must have been temporary)

Richard

He's not involved with the F1 team, which would explain why he isn't mentioned.

[steve_r]

Yeah, Jonathan seems to be very much a figure on the periphery of things. Judging by the Williams documentary on TV a couple of years ago, he was portrayed (maybe wrongly?) as someone in charge of a warehouse full of bits and pieces from the old historic cars, which is of no relevance to the current team at all.

It's not entirely unexpected that the new owners would want to install someone new in at the top and I guess this is the beginning of a restructuring that will hopefully lead to the team being at the sharp end of the grid again.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He's not involved with the F1 team, which would explain why he isn't mentioned.

Yes and no. After I was able to get the Williams F1 site to load, I looked at the official announcement. And it only mentions Claire. The articles includes quotes that mention the family pulling back, but only Claire and Frank (with it likely Frank really not having any significant involvement for a long time). My point is that the Dorilton purchase was for not just the F1 operations, but also the Heritage collection which is run by Jonathan.

I suspect that the only change is exactly as indicated and that is Claire's exit and that Frank (as I say above) was already not part of the management structure at time of purchase. That assuming Jonathan is still with the Heritage side, there is no public decision as of yet. Assuming the relationship between the family and the new owners is generally good, I can imagine Jonathan potentially remaining with the Heritage side? Does that side generate any revenue?

Richard

[peebee2]

Be interesting to see who is put in charge.

I’ve heard two names suggested. One could be good, the other dodgy.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Yes and no. After I was able to get the Williams F1 site to load, I looked at the official announcement. And it only mentions Claire.

The wording in the BBC article refers to the F1 team:

The Williams family will leave the team [...]
Williams and his daughter Claire, the deputy team principal, are stepping down.

[...]
Claire Williams said: "With the future of the team now secured, this feels like the appropriate time for us to step away from the sport."

It may be that the team is the only part of the organisation that the article writers are focusing on - or could mean that the rest of the business(es) will continue to operate as before. To me, it seems to be that Frank and Claire are stepping away from the sporting side of the business, but that the rest of the business will continue as before (at least in the short term).

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It may be that the team is the only part of the organisation that the article writers are focusing on - or could mean that the rest of the business(es) will continue to operate as before. To me, it seems to be that Frank and Claire are stepping away from the sporting side of the business, but that the rest of the business will continue as before (at least in the short term).

I think the last part of my last post was trying to say the same thing (but I was not clear). In short, they are probably just focusing on the F1 team at the moment. No changes elsewhere, so nothing to comment on.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Yes and no. After I was able to get the Williams F1 site to load, I looked at the official announcement. And it only mentions Claire. The articles includes quotes that mention the family pulling back, but only Claire and Frank (with it likely Frank really not having any significant involvement for a long time). My point is that the Dorilton purchase was for not just the F1 operations, but also the Heritage collection which is run by Jonathan.

I suspect that the only change is exactly as indicated and that is Claire's exit and that Frank (as I say above) was already not part of the management structure at time of purchase. That assuming Jonathan is still with the Heritage side, there is no public decision as of yet. Assuming the relationship between the family and the new owners is generally good, I can imagine Jonathan potentially remaining with the Heritage side? Does that side generate any revenue?

Richard

I read it too and the official announcement only mentions Claire Williams because the announcement is solely about her role within the F1 team.

Under the heritage section it says: "Williams Heritage was created in 2014 to manage the team's collection of historic Formula One cars. This includes maintaining and curating the Williams Grand Prix Collection, and showcasing, selling and running the fleet of cars, maintaining and curating the Williams Grand Prix Collection, and showcasing, selling and running the fleet of cars". It goes on to say: "The Heritage division will return these cars to their former glory and bring them into private ownership so they can be enjoyed and operated on track once again. The team will provide a comprehensive support network to owners and become a regular participant in the historic racing scene." That is where the revenue is generated.

[chillibowl]

i saw a story yesterday that Vettel has bought Mansell's old Williams...would this have been something he bought from the Heritage collection? sold by the old or new owners?

of course the timing of it all makes me want to believe it is connected somehow.

[billy bleach]

Make sure the door doesn't smack you on the Ar$e on the way out Claire. Honestly she has made Johnson and Trump look like they have a clue

[tux]

People involved are Horners cousin & Prince Williams brother in law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jame...racing_driver)

[andy97]

Originally Posted by tux

People involved are Horners cousin & Prince Williams brother in law. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jame...racing_driver)

A few posts ago, “Moneyseeker” posted on here (1Sept) that Matthews and Graham Lowden (ex Manor F1) were rumoured to be involved. Matthews raced for Manor in British F Renault.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i saw a story yesterday that Vettel has bought Mansell's old Williams...would this have been something he bought from the Heritage collection? sold by the old or new owners?

of course the timing of it all makes me want to believe it is connected somehow.

Been for sale at a dealer advertising in Classic Sportscar for months

[S griffin]

Sad day that we see the Williams family stepping down. Sir Frank has done a lot F1 and motorsport in general and whatever you think of Claire, there’s no doubting her passion for the team

I knew James Matthews is married to Pippa, but is he really Christian Horner’s cousin?

[VIVA GT]

Sad and strange times, but unfortunately 'The Family' were going to have to step away now that the business has been sold. The upside of all of this is that hopefully the new owners will get some properly experienced people in which should restore Williams to its former glory. As a side issue and purely from a sticky-beaks perspective, when we see who is installed into the team it may give a few more clues about who the people are actually behind the buy out.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sad and strange times, but unfortunately 'The Family' were going to have to step away now that the business has been sold.

Agree

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

The upside of all of this is that hopefully the new owners will get some properly experienced people in which should restore Williams to its former glory.

They need to pick wisely. I think it's clear that proper foundation here is good management.

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

As a side issue and purely from a sticky-beaks perspective, when we see who is installed into the team it may give a few more clues about who the people are actually behind the buy out.

So what you are saying is that we can expect it to be Petra or Tamara Ecclestone?

All joking aside, I am sure everyone is curious to know who it will be.

Richard

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sad and strange times, but unfortunately 'The Family' were going to have to step away now that the business has been sold. The upside of all of this is that hopefully the new owners will get some properly experienced people in which should restore Williams to its former glory. As a side issue and purely from a sticky-beaks perspective, when we see who is installed into the team it may give a few more clues about who the people are actually behind the buy out.

I agree, hopefully we will see the Williams name back up the front, even if the family will sadly no longer involved. But it’s no different from Ferrari and McLaren, who are still there despite their founders no longer here

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Been for sale at a dealer advertising in Classic Sportscar for months

well spotted. thanks.

[tux]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Sad day that we see the Williams family stepping down. Sir Frank has done a lot F1 and motorsport in general and whatever you think of Claire, there’s no doubting her passion for the team

I knew James Matthews is married to Pippa, but is he really Christian Horner’s cousin?

No sorry i was wrong, I thought Edward Horner, Christians cousin was part of the group who invested but it seems he just works at Eden Rock the group who advised the new owners of Williams. https://twitter.com/jenniegow/status...763971073?s=21

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

The upside of all of this is that hopefully the new owners will get some properly experienced people in which should restore Williams to its former glory.

We'd all like to think so, but sadly it doesn't always work out that way....

[chillibowl]

speaking of Horner though...he is now the longest current serving team principle at 16 years.

[Razor]

IMO, best thing for Williams is to become a satellite team to Renault (Ie: Alfa is to Ferrari, Alpha Tauri is to Red Bull etc) since no other teams will be using Renault parts. Williams get a decent supply of Renault goodies, (PU's, gearboxes and the like) Renault get that important data.

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Razor

IMO, best thing for Williams is to become a satellite team to Renault (Ie: Alfa is to Ferrari, Alpha Tauri is to Red Bull etc) since no other teams will be using Renault parts. Williams get a decent supply of Renault goodies, (PU's, gearboxes and the like) Renault get that important data.

They already have a Mercedes engine, I suspect it is the aero that is deficient, not the PU?

[Richard C]

Regarding becoming a satellite team. I can expect the key change new management will make will be the basic mindset that Williams has fought to keep. And that is that they are a "constructor" using the old school definition. Williams has very much rejected the strategy used by teams such as Haas, Alpha Tauri, etc. with Racing Point being the most recent successful example.

I would assume new leadership will show up, then they will immediately (if they are not already behind the scenes) work to form a stronger partnership with someone (Mercedes, Renault, maybe, but probably not Honda or Ferrari). That the path forward will be to "buy" vs. "build" as much as they can. This will be the antithesis of the current/prior Williams strategy. I can imagine any mid-level leadership who may not be onboard with this strategy may be forced out as well. It clearly will also impact resourcing at Williams. For example if you are buying a gearbox from someone else, you don't need staff who specialize in gearboxes.

If at some point in the future, if/when the sport and the team is healthier and if/when building back those capabilities make sense, nothing would stop them from doing so. Yes, a purposeful "brain drain" now would make it harder to build back those capabilities in the future. But they are trying to (1) survive (2) climb off the bottom of the grid. Their priority should not be to pretend to be (or staff like they are) Mercedes or Ferrari.

As with anything, this is all speculation on my part. But it is what I would do.

Richard

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Make sure the door doesn't smack you on the Ar$e on the way out Claire. Honestly she has made Johnson and Trump look like they have a clue

I don't have strong feelings on Claire either way. But given the constraints, who would have done a significantly better job? Williams have been doomed since they fell out with BMW.

They weren't exactly pulling up trees when Claire took over and, if she is to blame for the complete collapse of the team then she probably should take credit for the temporary revival they had as well.

It has been a typical, miserable slow death of an F1 team. The smallest organisations always end up being dragged out the back and shot. It is always the same: they lose a major component of their competitiveness and drop like a stone, have a bit of a revival and then have one final, fatal slump.

Once upon a time it was Williams stretching the budgets, ramping up the research spending and making F1 untenable for the smallest teams.

It is a sad day. But I am amazed they made it this far, things looked absolutely dire as long ago as 2006.