Nuburgring 24hr 2009

[275 GTB-4]

I would like to know more about this incident if anyone knows....was there a course car upstream from the Marshal with the bottle? Same same for the recovery driver on the ripple strip.

I assume it all happened under Yellow Flags but it still all looks potentially disastrous for a number of reasons

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMkpd...eature=related

[Stack]

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[Richard Sneader]

Just watched this. Cannot comment on what was put out flags, S/car etc before the incident as we are not shown. Personaly I thought the fire fighting was handled well and even back up with a new bottle. Why the spare was not past behind the barrier I dont know. What I could not believe was the disregard to personal safety in the lack of overalls etc. All arms were bare from everyone. The recovery guy was more protected. The recovery marshal put themselves in danger by being between the barrier and the moving vehicles and in strop distance if it snapped under tension.

[Cynic]

I was at the event but not in that section.

I'm suprised about the bare arms. Certainly all the German marshals I saw had overalls.

The snatching is something else though - that is pretty typical of how it is done. The really scary thing is that the tow vehicle has to drive to the incident covered only by white flags! It seems to work though - I watched a recovery in the Karousel, in the dark, with the guy attaching the tow-rope while cars went either side of him at near-racing speed, and he didn't seem the slightest bit concerned.

[Bezzers1986]

i was two or maybe 3 posts down (presuming it is the lexus pull off that happened near the start), we had a stationary yellow out for it (the incident was most likely under either waved or double waved yellows) looking at the section it may be 3 posts up so would have been double waved, waved and stationary.

No s/c's are used at the 24 hr due to size and number of cars. They will have sent an intercept vehicle, moves at race speed, which blocks the track on the side of the incident, and a tow vehicle, usually moved round under white flag. (though when a tow vehicle is towing it is sent round under yellows at the relevant posts)

Another thing they use is stationary white flags in the same way as yellow flags. Waved for the area the tow truck is in and stationary at the post further down.

It was quite an experience seeing how they work over there with no race stop or s/c. It did seem to work though!

Hope that helps

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Bezzers1986

Another thing they use is stationary white flags in the same way as yellow flags. Waved for the area the tow truck is in and stationary at the post further down.

. . . just like we do!

[Bezzers1986]

really, thank you for letting me know! I have never seen a stationary white flag in UK, only ever a waved when the slow car/course vehicle has been a sector.

I will endevour to put out a stationary from now on!

[Woolley]

I've done it, but you do get strange looks. Something that really ought to be reviewed for consistency.

With regard to the incident, not really prepared to comment too much on a video, but the guy putting out the fire did a good job, and has been commented before, overalls are just an additional protection, you really shouldn't be in a position to need them. Other procedures fitted local protocol, and as long as the drivers respect the flags there's no reason why it should cause a problem. In fact it's a great example of how things could be done so much more effiently if flags are used correctly and obeyed in full.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Bezzers1986

I have never seen a stationary white flag in UK, only ever a waved when the slow car/course vehicle has been a sector.

Maybe I should have said 'like we're supposed to do.'!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I've done it, but you do get strange looks. Something that really ought to be reviewed for consistency.

Don't see why you should get strange looks for doing the job according to the Blue Book (G 80 (d)).

[Cynic]

IIRC, at training a few years ago, we were told that a waved white wasn't an official flag signal, and that a white shoud always be stationary. *shrug* every flaggy I've ever told this to has looked at me as if I'm strange.

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Bezzers1986

I have never seen a stationary white flag in UK

You saw a few yesterday on post 13!

[Bezzers1986]

true, I remember 1, also your comment about the white flag being the most underused flag in racing....

This seems to have gone off topic lol, should we start a white flag thread?

[greenbean]

when i did 24hr theey used safety cars to neutrilize race this is only used after fast intervention car is sent out from race control to asses incident this usualy travels at race speed and is only flaged if it slows or stops in a sector. circuit is spilt into sector under the contorl of a senior obs . post obs report incident to him and he pases them to race control

[275 GTB-4]

Thanks to all who have commented...V interesting!

[PS not being critical..just trying to understand how things work elsewhere ]

[Babapapa]

here a footage from about 9:00 a.m. during the race. you see the work from the marschalls after an accident between the livestrip-BMW and one scirocco:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcmt5oTVNgM

(the sound is from radio nürburgring incl. the news at 9 and some music)

[Norbert]

Aside from the comments already made (fire fought well etc) I am slightly confused as to why the marshal found the need (at least twice) to stand in the track. If he needed to look at that side of the car the best thing to do would have been to move to the front of the car and look down the side of the car therefore using the car as protection.

[Babapapa]

maybe there stood a intervention car some meters before the burning lexus to protect the marshall. you see how they work at the ring on the example withe the scirocco and the BMW above.

on my opinion they do very good work at the ring!

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Babapapa

maybe there stood a intervention car some meters before the burning lexus to protect the marshall. you see how they work at the ring on the example withe the scirocco and the BMW above.

on my opinion they do very good work at the ring!

Maybe the intervention car was upstream...and I have no criticism of the Marshals...they have a their job to do.

I just think that others might do some things a little differently. I for one would stand at the edge of the track to wave a Yellow (if necessary) and direct cars to the left instead of standing in the middle to "protect" downstream. No guaranty of course that I still couldn't get clouted by an out-of-control car .

The Driver looked a little dazed, so I won't say he should have jumped the armco straight away instead of turning his back on the race and wandering along the fence!

[Simon Morris]

Originally Posted by Babapapa

maybe there stood a intervention car some meters before the burning lexus to protect the marshall. you see how they work at the ring on the example withe the scirocco and the BMW above.

on my opinion they do very good work at the ring!

Invertention car or not, I was still worried at how often the fire marshal walked onto the live circuit with his back to the traffic without even a galnce back to see if anything was coming.

That said this is still an event that I want to marshal at some point in the future. Eveyone makes mistakes once in a while.