2012 IndyCar schedule

[Purist]

Well, I'm a bit surprised that you thought of Mallory Park before you remembered Rockingham (UK).

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

Loudon (from what I've heard, 2011 was NH's only shot, and Bruton Smith was not pleased, and that IndyCar won't come back)

Well, he may or may not have been not pleased by IndyCar appearing at Loudon this year, but could he and his company have offered a similarly well equipped facility in the area? Probably not.
Here's hoping Loudon will be back regardless of Mr Smith's opinion about it. Competition is always refreshing to the market. If Mr Smith wants to have a say on where IndyCar races at, he may as well buy a stake in the series.

I must say I hope he does not do that because then the Series would likely never be able to get rid of Infineon Raceway.

The attendance at Loudon looked better on the screen than that at Milwaukee. Both were good races and should be back.

Maybe a rotation between Chicagoland and Milwaukee would be a solution for the time being?

So far, it looks like during Randy Bernard's tenure, every track recently in the series will be re-evaluated after every season's end and the least grossing events will be put on hold until fan interest gets them back in. It happened with Milwaukee this year. It can happen with the same track again.

[NaBUru38]

If they say it with those words, then it's an almost done deal.

Originally Posted by The Detroit News

Motor fans, prepare to start your engines: The Detroit Grand Prix could return to Belle Isle next year after a four-year absence.

City officials on Thursday received a request from racing officials for the race, the first step in bringing it to Belle Isle. The City Council could approve the request as early as Tuesday, setting the stage for the race's return June 1-3.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110916/...#ixzz1Y9DOXniE

The only strange thing is the proposed date. Texas is supposed to have a free week after Indianapolis.

[PabloTeK]

Originally Posted by Purist

Well, I'm a bit surprised that you thought of Mallory Park before you remembered Rockingham (UK).

Mallory Park would be amazing, although the pits would have to involve driving through the paddock!

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

If they say it with those words, then it's an almost done deal.



The only strange thing is the proposed date. Texas is supposed to have a free week after Indianapolis.

Belle Isle won't happen unless Detroit gets a sponsor for it...a tough task up in the Motor City with their local economy being so depressed.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Thank you Purist for introducing me to the Rafaela oval in Argentine. This is the first thing I have ever heard about it. Man, this track is massive with its length of almost 3 miles. The locals still use it with some chicanes in places but this video shows how run-down it really is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22ZRJcrwEfw. They don't even have catch fencing (!) there.

But is IndyCar interested in the Argentinian market at all, or just in the Brazilian one?
My guess is a comeback of Lausitzring is a lot more likely than Rafaela.

However, it's best for the Series to look for local ovals in the US for future IndyCar races, especially if they are in the proximity of Indiana so "Hoosiers" can join the locals at the races easier.

I would have thought Argentina is worth investigating. They used to have a GP there up until 1998 and Argentina was the first country to hold a GP outside of Europe, so there certainly is a history there.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I would have thought Argentina is worth investigating. They used to have a GP there up until 1998 and Argentina was the first country to hold a GP outside of Europe, so there certainly is a history there.

They've got 3 fully subscribed top tier touring car series with a plethora of supports, so I think Argentina is like Australia and the USA, the motorsport interest has shifted to cars with roofs.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

They've got 3 fully subscribed top tier touring car series with a plethora of supports, so I think Argentina is like Australia and the USA, the motorsport interest has shifted to cars with roofs.

I don't see Australia's interest in F1 shifting. The Australian GP has been part of the F1 calendar since 1985. Just because they are racing cars with roofs in Argentina doesn't mean they aren't interested in an open wheel series. It's definitely worth putting the fealers out. There have been rumours but only rumours of an Argentine GP.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I don't see Australia's interest in F1 shifting. The Australian GP has been part of the F1 calendar since 1985. Just because they are racing cars with roofs in Argentina doesn't mean they aren't interested in an open wheel series. It's definitely worth putting the fealers out. There have been rumours but only rumours of an Argentine GP.

The Australian race is dependent on the largesse of the Victorian Government and runs a big, big loss every year.

Ultimately as it always does it comes down to money and without it, no race.

I question why the indy crowd would want to start racing in places like argentina and china when the purpose of founding the irl was to have an all American open wheel series with ovals and no furrinners as AJ would say.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The Australian race is dependent on the largesse of the Victorian Government and runs a big, big loss every year.

Ultimately as it always does it comes down to money and without it, no race.

I question why the indy crowd would want to start racing in places like argentina and china when the purpose of founding the irl was to have an all American open wheel series with ovals and no furrinners as AJ would say.

I'm know the Australian GP runs at a loss but that doesn't mean it's going to disappear from the calendar soon. The fans like it and so does Bernie, which is more important. It's very much part of his F1 global strategy.

I agree with you about China. It's proving to be a bit of a lemon in F1, with poor crowd attendance, as they've never had any grass roots motorsport, or motorsport heritage.The only reason I can see IndyCar going there is for the money the Chinese are willing to throw at it. On the other hand Argentina does has grass roots motorsport and a great motorsports heritage.

As far furrinners go, that's one of the things that has held the IRL back, without the furrinners you've got no furrin interest and therefore a lack of potential sponsrship money, something that's plagued the IRL from its inception. You can't run a home grown major open wheel series, without furrinners. CART knew that, F1 knows that.

[Carsandmotorracing]

Belle Isle will happen. I can see GM or the UAW sponsering the event.

[Paradise City]

Argentina would've been great particularily if Juan Fangio II was still part of the field. Alas!

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

They've got 3 fully subscribed top tier touring car series with a plethora of supports, so I think Argentina is like Australia and the USA, the motorsport interest has shifted to cars with roofs.

Exactly. After the 2001 crisis, the Argentines have forgotten to try tackle the world. Only the Pérez Companc millionare family and a few exceptions in sports car racing have attempted to be succesful outside the country. Even Guerrieri with so many success in Europe and North America lacks backing. Today, Argentine young karters dream of winning with a Turismo Carretera or a touring car.

Argentina now got a FIM Road Racing date at Santiago del Estero because of government backing. Just like the GT1 race at San Luis - it's bread and circus, it's electoral propaganda.

[mitchbr]

Originally Posted by Purist

Well, I'm a bit surprised that you thought of Mallory Park before you remembered Rockingham (UK).

*Facepalm* I don't know how I didn't remember that

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Carsandmotorracing

Belle Isle will happen. I can see GM or the UAW sponsering the event.

Hate Hell Isle, but if GM is willing to support the event then I see no problem.

[Yannick]

Not a fan of the Belle Isle Park race either but Detroit Downtown probably would not be a possibility? After all, the trend points toward downtown as Baltimore suggested.

[Tim Northcutt]

The Detroit City Council unanimously approved the event.

Now Penske needs to get a sponsor to pay for it. That's the tough part.

[mitchbr]

I mean, I'd rather MIS, but if we can get a Belle Isle circuit with a place to pass I'm all for it. It'd be tough for DP01's to pass with the most recent layout.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mitchbr

I mean, I'd rather MIS, but if we can get a Belle Isle circuit with a place to pass I'm all for it. It'd be tough for DP01's to pass with the most recent layout.

I'd like too see a return to MIS.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The Australian race is dependent on the largesse of the Victorian Government and runs a big, big loss every year.

Ultimately as it always does it comes down to money and without it, no race.

I question why the indy crowd would want to start racing in places like argentina and china when the purpose of founding the irl was to have an all American open wheel series with ovals and no furrinners as AJ would say.

They don't want to.

[NaBUru38]

Bad news for New Hampshire:

Originally Posted by Jerry Gappens

I'd say it's highly unlikely at this point [that IndyCar races in 2012]. f they wanted to come in and rent the track and assume the risk, they could do that. Or if they brought in some corporate sponsorship that would help underwrite some of it, those are really the only two ways we could look at continuing it.

Without Milwaukee and New Hampshire, oval/road/street balance would get seriously damaged. Randy must be thinking hard how to add more profitable races.

[Purist]

I'm not surprised by Loudon, but maybe we'll see a deal on Chicagoland, which would help the balance a bit.

The downtown Detroit street circuit would be nigh impossible for the present Indy Cars to pass on, and who knows about the 2012 car. You NEED something with more power, less drag, and that is just more nimble to make a race of it on that track. Here's the 1989 start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sduhVhh4mpo

Belle Isle would have a decent passing place, if they'd use the 1998-2001 layout. That's the one that bypasses some of that niggly, tight stuff after the Turn 1/2 esse, and has a nice straight down to Turn 3. Here's the 1998 start:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIpzk...eature=related

I would think that Penske has got something, otherwise there would have been no point in sending the request in the first place. And without support, I can't imagine how city council would have approved the request, much less approved it unanimously.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

I'm not surprised by Loudon, but maybe we'll see a deal on Chicagoland, which would help the balance a bit.

It's like musical chairs and they are quickly running out of running out of people who will pay their inflated sanctioning fees. Sanctioning fees are the bread and butter of their cash flow and it's all drying up.

Most music or entertainment acts work the same way. Instead of getting involved with the gate and other revenue, they just have a flat fee they get paid. The irl though is like a music act that had it's last big hit 15 years ago and has been on the slide ever since. Now they are sharing double billing with a puppet act and no one wants to pay their fee.

Doing a facility rental and running their own race, well that now puts them in the promotional business, which realistically requires a full time team to run.

I suggested years ago to Champcar and it was ignored to follow the V8 Supercar model. One problem V8SC felt they had was inconsistency in some of their events. So they set up a separate full time event company to promote and run some of their race weekends and it has been a successful move for V8SC. A consistent level of well executed and promoted events brings out the fans and in turn is attractive to sponsors.

The irl is a poorly run organization at all levels and it doesn't appeal to anyone out there in the mass public and business sector. Being left to run it's own races, it doesn't seem prepared at all.

[Purist]

You'd think they could work out something with the promotional arm of Andretti, which then spun off on its own and purchased Mid Ohio.

On the rest there, I'm not convinced that IndyCar is managed any worse than quite a few mainstream corporations/banks/insurers out there, so you can stop beating that drum. It's old news, especially since the short-termist economics bug has thoroughly infected the whole of the business community over the past 20 years, at least.

BTW, I mentioned Chicagoland specifically because the man in charge there IS definitely interested in having IndyCar return to that track. We'll just have to see.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Purist

You'd think they could work out something with the promotional arm of Andretti, which then spun off on its own and purchased Mid Ohio.

On the rest there, I'm not convinced that IndyCar is managed any worse than quite a few mainstream corporations/banks/insurers out there, so you can stop beating that drum. It's old news, especially since the short-termist economics bug has thoroughly infected the whole of the business community over the past 20 years, at least.

BTW, I mentioned Chicagoland specifically because the man in charge there IS definitely interested in having IndyCar return to that track. We'll just have to see.

Whatever banks and insurers do, couldn't care. They are not irl competitors. The irl does a terrible job considering the previous success of open wheel racing and against it's main competitor of stock car racing. The irl is a money losing business and has been since 1995. It has never turned a profit, ever.