Cortina GT mk 2

[nick martin]

does any one know if the 1967 Cortina GT MK 2 with the X-flow motor was holmologated in '67 ??

or what group it runs in in either UK or US Vintage racing.

and help really appreciated
///N

[Peter Mallett]

Welcome to our Forum Nick. I suspect Zefarelly will be able to assisit as soon as he wakes up.

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Welcome to our Forum Nick. I suspect Zefarelly will be able to assisit as soon as he wakes up.

cough, cough, splutter . . .someone mention my name

I've got some homologation papers, but they dion't appear very racy, and I I have had thoughts of prepping one myself. I think if you did one with a 1500 pre xflow or a 1600 xflow it would be affordable competitive fun in Groovy baby or the CTCRC post historics. as long as you keep an eye on the weight as theyre a bit heavier than the MK1,

[GTRMagic]

Is the 1600 xflow the same engine in Kent FF?

[Peter Mallett]

Yes but its not crossflow.

Or more accrately, the Kent engine powered the Mk2 Gt and Kent FF but it is not a crossflow engine.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Or more accrately, the Kent engine powered the Mk2 Gt and Kent FF but it is not a crossflow engine.

The MK2 GT used a pre-crossflow 1500 engine for its first year of production; later cars used a crossflow 1600. The Kent engine used in FFs is a crossflow - carb on the right, exhaust on the left as installed in the car.

[Peter Mallett]

Damn I was waiting to be corrected. However I thought the Kent started off as the basic ohv introduced in 1959. That was not crossflow.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

However I thought the Kent started off as the basic ohv introduced in 1959. That was not crossflow.

Correct!

The first Kent was the 997, used in the Anglia from 1959-on; 107E Prefect, Classic, Capri (original version), Corsair, Cortina MK1 & early MK2, (plus anything I've forgotten!) all used variations on that. The crossflow engines were announced in the autumn of 1967, as 1300s & 1600s for use in the year-old MK2 Cortina.

[Peter Mallett]

Ah,

So they didn't change the designation when they went crossflow then.

[nick martin]

WOW - such interest !!!, but i think i may have to further frame my Q . . .

as i understand it the Cortina MK 2 GT was originaly a 1500 non x-flow, until aug 1967 when i was available with the x-flow that was also fitted into the 2000E

in order to compete in one particular race group i have to prove that there WAS a 1967 cortina MK2 x-flow raced in 1967... somewhere!! . . . . either SCCA, FIA, RAC etc

if not i can do the non x-flow route, but the car i am looking at is a 1967 x-flow GT (a real one as far as i can tell)

and yes this should be a fun, low maint car . . . . any help really appreciated

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by nick martin

WOW - such interest !!!, but i think i may have to further frame my Q . . .

as i understand it the Cortina MK 2 GT was originaly a 1500 non x-flow, until aug 1967 when i was available with the x-flow that was also fitted into the 2000E

Sorry to be pedantic, but the 2000E was a Corsair (not Cortina) with the 2 litre V4 engine (as used in the Transit van!).

I agree with everything else though, the original Mk II Cortina GT used the same 1500cc, non xflow engine as the Mk I Cortina GT, changing to the xflow 1600 about 1 year later.
Here's another question: did the original 1500 GT's have the 4 extra gauges set into the standard height dashboard, and then when they changed to 1600's were they moved upwards into a separate binnacle?

Finally, I'm sure that when the MkII Cortina came out, it was initially available as a 1500 (non xflow) and 1300 (non xflow). The 1300 was a great engine, with a 5 bearing crank (not 3, like the 997, 1200 & 1340). This was a rare engine, but I did have one in my Anglia Estate 30 years ago...

[nick martin]

i meant corsair - that pointy ford that villans in the 70's drove, right?

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sorry to be pedantic, but the 2000E was a Corsair (not Cortina) with the 2 litre V4 engine (as used in the Transit van!).

There was also a MK3 Cortina 2000E, I think. The MK2 was the 1600E.

Here's another question: did the original 1500 GT's have the 4 extra gauges set into the standard height dashboard, and then when they changed to 1600's were they moved upwards into a separate binnacle?

I had a 1968 MK2 GT, which had the auxiliary gauges set into the crash padding on top of the dash. The gauges were moved down into the dash for 1970.

Finally, I'm sure that when the MkII Cortina came out, it was initially available as a 1500 (non xflow) and 1300 (non xflow). The 1300 was a great engine, with a 5 bearing crank (not 3, like the 997, 1200 & 1340). This was a rare engine, but I did have one in my Anglia Estate 30 years ago...

The 1500GT engine was a great engine too - much smoother at high revs than the crossflow. Thanks to Ford's habit of using very low second gears, some amazing figures could be seen in second.......would you believe 7,000 rev/min???!!!!

Originally Posted by Peter Mallet

So they didn't change the designation when they went crossflow then.

I think the Ford designation was always Kent, although I don't remember it being in common usage at the time - it was more commonly known as 105E. I suspect the Kent name only started to be used in the motoring press when it became necessary to differentiate it from the Pinto.......but my memeory's not very reliable!

[Anuauto]

I would doubt a crossflow Cortina was raced in the UK in 67 at any level. The "Cortina Twincam" or Mk2 Lotus Cortina was not, I believe, homologated on 1.1.67. but quite a bit later in 67. In rallying in 67, a Mk1 Lotus was used on the Swedish and then the (pre-Xflow) Mk2 GT was used until as late as Easter 67 on the Safari (alongside at least one MK1 Lotus on that event, so it probably wasn't choice not to use the Mk2 Lotus). Early Mk2 Lotus appearances in rallying in 67 were as prototypes in Group 5 or 6, not Group 2. A Group 2 Mk2 Lotus won the Gulf London Rally in July 67, so it was homologated by then (but was the sole works Group 2 car, the others being Group 5, so it may have only just been homologated that month). I assume the Xflow in the Cortina was anounced at the October 67 Motorshow, alongside the Escort (with the Xflow). Even if made available in advance of that for competition use, where would it have been raced in preference to a Twincam or FVA? It may have been homologated almost instantaneously, ie.before the end of 67, for private entrants for rallying. The RAC Rally at the end of November that year was cancelled the night before the start and records of entries are thus harder to find now. Declared capacity on entry list would indicate if any GT was a Xflow rather than a pre Xflow?

[zefarelly]

I think both engines where homologated in fairly standard form, my preference is for the precrossflow as it revs better.

the dash changed later in the run, so something like 66 Mk2 prexflow, 67 xflow (GT high dash) and 69 the low dash came in.

[Anuauto]

All engines are homologated in bog standard form, prior to "alternative production" and "option" stuff. As for allowable mods in FIA events, at that time (1967) Group 2 (as well as Group 1) required retention of standard inlet manifold, so no twin 40s/45s on Cortina GTs in Group 2 in International events. I certainly cant recall anyone racing a Mk2 GT at club level either in 67 (where twin 40s/45s would have been allowed but would have been up against twinks?). I'm not sure if anyone rallied one with a Xflow at club level either before the end of 67.

[Al Weyman]

What would be the point of racing the MK11 at the time when you could buy the same engine fitted into the much lighter and nimbler Escort (Mexico 1600cc). At the time Zefs Mk1 was produced the lighter model was the Anglia but that only came with the 1200cc (or smaller) engine, if they had fitted them with the 1500 from the factory that would have been the way to go but they did'nt. Oh as a matter of interest I started my racing in an Anglia Hotrod fitted with a pre-crossflow.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

What would be the point of racing the MK11 at the time when you could buy the same engine fitted into the much lighter and nimbler Escort (Mexico 1600cc).

The Mexico wasn't introduced until November 1970, & it was homologated at 1601cc, moving it into the next capacity class for competiton use.

[Al Weyman]

Why on earth did they do that?

[John Turner]

I'm guessing, but it was possibly because the over 1600 class was less competitive. It wouldn't be the first time that a car has been homologated in the next capacity class because less competition meant a better prospect of a class win. I understand that MGBs were entered at Sebring back in the 60's with over 2 litre engines to get them clear of the very competitive up to 2-litre class.

[Anuauto]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Why on earth did they do that?

They didn't:the FIA did when Ford claimed it was 1598.
When the BDA (RS1600) was homologated, Ford claimed it was 1601 (which technically it could be if a freak engine with all the tollerances at the upper end went through the production line). This was to enable the bore to be increased in the quest for outright wins (cant overbore beyond the existing class limit - which was one of the limiting factors with the twink in International Group 2).
In 73, they got the alloy block BDA homologated for the MK1 RS1600 as "evolution" and then the MK2 RS1800 was made as 1840cc because there was by then an overbore limit from standard and 1840 allowed it to be taken to 1998cc.
When Ford put the Mexico up for homologation, the FIA (no doubt prompted) said "oi! same block as RS1600 ain't it?", or words to that effect. I'm pretty sure much later on they got it back to 1598 after the MK2 Mexico with Pinto 1600 was homologated as "evolution" of the MK1 (yeah, right, different shell, different engine...).

[Al Weyman]

Amazing!

[John Turner]

And complex!

[Peter Mallett]

The MGB was entered in the GT class even though the GT hadn't been built at the time.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Anuauto

When Ford put the Mexico up for homologation, the FIA (no doubt prompted) said "oi! same block as RS1600 ain't it?", or words to that effect.

Ford appear to have believed their own subterfuge!

The Mk1 Mexico/RS2000 workshop manual supplement (why did I keep that?) claims that a bore of 80,98mm & stroke of 77,62mm give 1601cc capacity - work it out using those figures & its 1599!