Co-Drivers & their future...

T-star · 10 Oct 2011, 05:13 (Ref:2968434)

So forgive me if my beer infested mind didn't accurately observe the race, but for me there are a few guys who seriously stuffed up yesterday.

Besnard: terrible mistake. I was telling someone the other day that he WILL make at least 1 mistake per day, an hopefully he makes that mistake whilst not driving. He was driving.

Youlden: Didn't he also cost Frosty last year at Indy? I think only doing 2 events a year aren't enough for him.

Marshall: Garry Rogers wasn't happy with Besnard last year, will he be happy with Marshall?

Richards: He seemed to place a lot of pressure on Frosty. Didn't seem to do anything wrong...just seemed slow.

Any thoughts?

Juarez Jed · 10 Oct 2011, 05:29 (Ref:2968438)

Roland Dane was complaining that the co-drivers are asking $200k for the enduro races, one would assume that Bezzy and Youlden were being paid by Holden the way they destroyed Will Davison's and Junior Johnsons days at the mountain.
I am always underwhelmed by David Brabham also, I don't think he has much interest in the event. There are guys like Max Papis and Ryan Hunter-Reay lining up for a go next year, but why would you risk a V8 novice over a solid Fujitsu runner ?
Unfortunately there are more spots to fill than there are suitable applicants it would seem.

cavvy · 10 Oct 2011, 06:14 (Ref:2968444)

Twice a year drivers seemed to be found out so what is the answer, and at what cost.

I'm a bit of a fan of David Brabham, who (to me) can do the job BUT I was underwhelmed by the amateurs calling the race on TV & that is every man dog of them - when was Alex Davison driving because they certainly called David Brabham for ALL that cars problems.

Is this an opportunity to give the Fujitsu series some purpose (other than to on sell used cars from the main game)?

Both HRT & T888 are using the Fujitsu series, but the cost would be upward of $200k .... & the dreamers can forget free drives as rewards.

Senna05 · 10 Oct 2011, 06:58 (Ref:2968452)

The co-drivers who are naturally talented, have regular drives in some series, or have been able to do well on a consistent basis seem to be the ones who continue to keep on keeping on.

There are alot of guys who don't seem to know where the car limit of 100% is, and once they hit 101%, their day is done. Over the year, people like Besnard and Marshall have shown glimpses of pure speed, but they don't know when to roll off the throttle like other drivers, like McConville and Owen Kelly.

That said, the McConvilles, Richards and sadly, I hate to say it, even Skaifes, showed us over the weekend that they just can't match the raw pace of those driving more regularly. But, in a B Driver race, they can at least keep some pace against some of the younger guns that are making their way through.

The ruling to have an A and B driver in each care certainly has made the scramble for quality drivers who keep fit, maintain their eye in the game and have some experience to bank on one to keep an eye on.

woodduck97 · 10 Oct 2011, 08:12 (Ref:2968477)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senna05

That said, the McConvilles, Richards and sadly, I hate to say it, even Skaifes, showed us over the weekend that they just can't match the raw pace of those driving more regularly. But, in a B Driver race, they can at least keep some pace against some of the younger guns that are making their way through.
.

What Skaife did show us over the weekend was the value of his experience. In that first stint, he realised that the car wasnt 100% right, so he drove at a conservative pace, radioed what changes the car needed, and then gave it to Lowndes in a much improved condition. Lowndes was then able to pick through the positions lost in the "queueing".

His analysis and feel for the cars - and more importantly what the cars needed, was certainly not lacking...

Alco · 10 Oct 2011, 08:43 (Ref:2968494)

We live in the era where the co-driver does not need to be super quick, just do good laps and not break the car. The Safety Car keeps condensing the field so there is no value in having a lead. It's all about who has a good car for the sprint after the last pit stop. That said, I think at least two names mentioned here won't be on the invite list for any teams in 2012.

FalconEL · 10 Oct 2011, 09:39 (Ref:2968524)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

Roland Dane was complaining that the co-drivers are asking $200k for the enduro races, one would assume that Bezzy and Youlden were being paid by Holden the way they destroyed Will Davison's and Junior Johnsons days at the mountain.
I am always underwhelmed by David Brabham also, I don't think he has much interest in the event. There are guys like Max Papis and Ryan Hunter-Reay lining up for a go next year, but why would you risk a V8 novice over a solid Fujitsu runner ?
Unfortunately there are more spots to fill than there are suitable applicants it would seem.

Wow. You're not serious in suggesting these blokes GET PAID to do such a poor job................

Common sense, seriously lacking. Howling up Mountain Straight on an outlap without giving the brake pedal a nudge to make sure there is something there? Needing to be told to pump up a pedal. These blokes are deadset spoilt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

Unfortunately there are more spots to fill than there are suitable applicants it would seem.

I disagree. Any half decent State Championship level competitor could do a better job than some of the supposed "hired guns"....... Roland Dane is obviously not looking hard enough.

Rick · 10 Oct 2011, 11:31 (Ref:2968611)

You left Paul Morris off the list - made Steve Owen work hard. Would have been better if Owen started and let Morris drive against the other B graders though.

Mixer · 10 Oct 2011, 12:08 (Ref:2968643)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

You left Paul Morris off the list - made Steve Owen work hard. Would have been better if Owen started and let Morris drive against the other B graders though.

I thought Morris and Simonsen both looked like they were in reverse. Considering how quick Steve was, I am really surprised you'd put these guys in the car when the fast guys are there and all the cars are bunched up.

Axeman444 · 10 Oct 2011, 22:21 (Ref:2968963)

i thought despite his obvious skill level, Simonsen looked rather ordinary especially in his 1st stint. The car obviously didn't have pace, yet he still acted as if it was the final laps, blocking and weaving.

Bezzy, well haven't been in the same situation so not going to comment either way

Marshall & Ritter, old Garry was wise to say to the cameras they should be going hard, but bet internally he was saying something else. For Ritter to say Marshall was driving like an idiot, surely outlines that something wasn't right there.

And Mr Youlden... well, of the last 5 races he has made serious errors 3 times...

and who was the bright spark at FPR that thought it would be a good idea to let the codriver who has done no starts in a V8SC for 11 months start at Bathurst over the regular driver?

Belly13 · 11 Oct 2011, 02:42 (Ref:2969014)

Ritter made a rookie mistake at Murray's and held Marshall up. I honestly thought Marshall had good pace, but was a little impatient at times. I thought Andy Jones did the best job out of all the 'B-graders'.

Axeman444 · 11 Oct 2011, 04:55 (Ref:2969036)

interesting:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Beam Racing on Facebook

OK ... Bezzy bashing stops here. We have explained the cicrumstances of the accident several times and we do not lay blame on him.

Mixer · 11 Oct 2011, 05:20 (Ref:2969037)

The phot of JNR sitting in the roof of the car is a farkin classic. Clearly DJR have not lost their sense of humour, once they had a chance to get over the shock.

peckstar · 11 Oct 2011, 05:26 (Ref:2969039)

Quote:

Team Manager Malcolm Swetnam described the steps leading to the incident as "an unfortunate set of circumstances".
"Besi came in for a routine pit stop and we did a brake pad change," said Swetnam.
"[#17 Engineer] Greg Wheeler's radio had been suspect on the way in and I'd taken over transmission.
"Basically Besi didn't pump up the brake pedal enough and when he got to the second corner and had a long brake pedal he went with such force it locked the brake and turned him round.
"It wasn't a brake failure per se; it was basically a set of circumstances and was absolutely not his fault in any way at all."

well i guess there are some experts on here who sadly have bigger mouths than brains

ford71 · 11 Oct 2011, 05:26 (Ref:2969040)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mixer

The phot of JNR sitting in the roof of the car is a farkin classic. Clearly DJR have not lost their sense of humour, once they had a chance to get over the shock.

Gotta link for said pic?
Cant find anything non-facebook.

Reload · 11 Oct 2011, 05:33 (Ref:2969042)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

well i guess there are some experts on here who sadly have bigger mouths than brains

Pot calling !!
The way i read it, it still says that Besnard didn't pump the pedal sufficiently which has him contributing to the brake failure.

peckstar · 11 Oct 2011, 05:39 (Ref:2969043)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford71

Gotta link for said pic?
Cant find anything non-facebook.

Welcome to the new millennium, join up just so you can get all the latest news on your favourite and not so favourite teams,

pictures and news are shared to the world within seconds

but that aside here it is

peckstar · 11 Oct 2011, 05:44 (Ref:2969044)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reload

Pot calling !!
The way i read it, it still says that Besnard didn't pump the pedal sufficiently which has him contributing to the brake failure.

clearly you lack expertise in reading then

he didnt pump the pedal because he wasnt told to.

the team made an error, its right there in black and white for the intelligent to read

Mixer · 11 Oct 2011, 05:48 (Ref:2969046)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

he didnt pump the pedal because he wasnt told to. the team made an error, its right there in black and white for the intelligent to read

Its 50/50, he knew they had done pads, in the heat of the moment he neglected to do it early enough and the team didn't remind him. They are equally to blame.

peckstar · 11 Oct 2011, 06:06 (Ref:2969047)

Firstly how had he known they had done pads?

Mixer based on this knowledge of yours. I guess you are in the DJR pits and have been part of the discusions about if the brake pads will be changed or not. In which case you may be right.

If your not part of the team, maybe you can share how you know this and what inside information you have to how the pitstop was meant to happen

alternately i guess you are one of the so called experts who actually know nothing and i will trust the team to give me the advice rather than you

Reload · 11 Oct 2011, 06:14 (Ref:2969050)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

Firstly how had he known they had done pads?

Mixer based on this knowledge of yours. I guess you are in the DJR pits and have been part of the discusions about if the brake pads will be changed or not. In which case you may be right.

If your not part of the team, maybe you can share how you know this and what inside information you have to how the pitstop was meant to happen

alternately i guess you are one of the so called experts who actually know nothing and i will trust the team to give me the advice rather than you

Are you able to post anything without the smartarse attitude?

peckstar · 11 Oct 2011, 06:19 (Ref:2969053)

sure i can

are you able to post on topic and not play the man?

ok, maybe i cant

at the same time, im not the one telling DJR that they are liars and it's all davids fault or are you part of the team and know stuff that they are not letting on?

when a person claims to know more than the team, then they should back it up in some way or they cope the smart arse attitude that they deserve

Reload · 11 Oct 2011, 06:30 (Ref:2969056)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

sure i can

are you able to post on topic and not play the man?

ok, maybe i cant

at the same time, im not the one telling DJR that they are liars and it's all davids fault or are you part of the team and know stuff that they are not letting on?

when a person claims to know more than the team, then they should back it up in some way or they cope the smart arse attitude that they deserve

Teams and drivers have been more than prepared to tell little "fibs" from time to time to cover certain situations.

ford71 · 11 Oct 2011, 06:35 (Ref:2969057)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

Welcome to the new millennium, join up just so you can get all the latest news on your favourite and not so favourite teams,
/56/56329_7_1.jpg[/IMG]

no thanks, I'll leave the facebook thing to everyone else.
These people obviously have far more spare time than I will ever have.

Thanks for posting the pic though.
Ya see, you don't need facebook, just forums

Quote:

Originally Posted by peckstar

Firstly how had he known they had done pads?

There are no definites here but I'd like to think that any strategy in DJR's pits was being shared with the co-driver. (before he jumped in to steer)
Also I would expect Besnard to have seen the pad change setup as he rolled up to his markers.

My take on this is that its unfortunate, nothing more.
Radio issues at the wrong time was a problem for them.
Besnard should know to pump, the team should know to remind him.
Sometimes little things go wrong that make big disasters.

peckstar · 11 Oct 2011, 06:36 (Ref:2969058)

and people on here have been know to tell bigger fibs and share opinions that are based on almost no evidence and often a pre concieved idea of which they have no understanding or knowledge

what have they got to gain from it in this place, he is a contractor who is now out of contract, why protect him and the cost of the team, hang him out to dry and protect the team if you want to fib

in this case they have excepted responsibility for not telling him to pump the brakes as is there procedure/checklist

I guess there is one thing worse though, how come the driver of the 88 didnt pit and as a result the car stopped on track

Surely

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