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Old 13 Jan 2020, 12:10 (Ref:3951331)   #1
greentrumpet
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greentrumpet should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
2T engines in F1?

Pat Symonds may yet be the saviour of the 2 stroke engine. Great power from small cc, wonderful sound, entertaining power band etc. Stinkwheels have traditionally been a bit dirty, smoky, uneconomical. Lotus came up with a great design a few years ago but there seems to have been little enthusiasm. Symonds idea is very exciting and seems very logical.
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Old 13 Jan 2020, 12:17 (Ref:3951332)   #2
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For those that have no idea what you’re referring to, a link.....

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...ener-formula-e
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Old 13 Jan 2020, 13:27 (Ref:3951335)   #3
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For those that have no idea what you’re referring to, a link.....

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/n...ener-formula-e
Thanks for the link Mike, I fell right into that category!
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Old 13 Jan 2020, 14:17 (Ref:3951352)   #4
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Thanks for the link Mike, I fell right into that category!
Sure you’re not alone....

Dreams of a 20k rpm multi-cylinder screamer lubricated by Castrol R!
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Old 13 Jan 2020, 14:31 (Ref:3951355)   #5
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Sure you’re not alone....

Dreams of a 20k rpm multi-cylinder screamer lubricated by Castrol R!
I like the sound of that Mike, in both senses of the word! (But would it have to be synthetic Castrol R?)
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Old 13 Jan 2020, 16:05 (Ref:3951363)   #6
Richard Casto
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Quotes from the Motorsportmagazine.com article.
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I certainly think that the internal combustion engine has a long future and I think it has a future that’s longer than a lot of politicians realise because politicians are hanging everything on electric vehicles.

There’s nothing wrong with electric vehicles but there are reasons why they are not the solution for everyone.
I broadly agree with this.

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It might be that the next power unit we produce is the last one we do with liquid hydrocarbons
Agree. But I wonder why this should be something radically new such as a two stroke renewable setup vs. something similar to what we have now. It's my understanding from what I read elsewhere that what he is proposing is a very spec setup. So manufactures (Ferrari, etc.) probably just will not care about this unless this two stroke configuration is inline with their future product direction (which I suspect it is not). I can see these power units being very expensive when you factor it all together.

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The new engines are likely to remain hybrids but powered by synthetic fuel, made by combining hydrogen with carbon captured from the air, using surplus green energy.
What is the cost of this? Is there any infrastructure in place to support this?

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As well as the cars, this e-fuel could power the planes that carry the cars and equipment to races, making a big dent in the sport’s carbon footprint.
For now, that is a huge pipe dream and should not be used to sell this idea IMHO.

Alternative fuel that is created based upon surplus green energy? I think that may be the long term future of cargo transportation. Convert green (solar, wind, etc.) into high density energy (hydrogen or hydrocarbon) for use in mass haulers such as land, sea and air freight. But what is the state of this today? I know there are efforts to create sustainable (and drop in) replacements for jet aircraft, but I suspect this is a long way off.

If anyone is curious, there is a long running thread on https://www.f1technical.net/ about two stroke engines and the potential for them in F1 (Including recent discussion about this same article)

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Old 13 Jan 2020, 16:08 (Ref:3951364)   #7
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i find i am also intrigued by the fuel, how they will make it, and whether or not it can also be used in their cargo planes?

i would imagine a lot of work has to be done before this becomes a relaity in the next 5 years no?

from the article:

'Research presented at the conference showed that electric racing cars could be responsible for twice the level of carbon emissions as hybrid racing cars, because of the amount produced when building the batteries.'

also would like top hear more on this. on one hand, what he says about batteries doesn't surprise me at all, but on the other hand, dont hybrid cars also use batteries which i am assuming also present this same problems as the electric car batteries he is talking about?
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Old 13 Jan 2020, 16:21 (Ref:3951367)   #8
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from the article:

'Research presented at the conference showed that electric racing cars could be responsible for twice the level of carbon emissions as hybrid racing cars, because of the amount produced when building the batteries.'

also would like top hear more on this. on one hand, what he says about batteries doesn't surprise me at all, but on the other hand, dont hybrid cars also use batteries which i am assuming also present this same problems as the electric car batteries he is talking about?
At the risk of going OT, hybrid road cars have quite small batteries relative to most pure EVs so that lessens their carbon used for production. Interestingly Mazda stated recently during the preview of their first pure EV that they will only fit a small battery pack in order to get the ‘life’ carbon emissions to match comparable ICE models...... But we digress.
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Old 13 Jan 2020, 16:25 (Ref:3951368)   #9
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
'Research presented at the conference showed that electric racing cars could be responsible for twice the level of carbon emissions as hybrid racing cars, because of the amount produced when building the batteries.'

also would like top hear more on this. on one hand, what he says about batteries doesn't surprise me at all, but on the other hand, dont hybrid cars also use batteries which i am assuming also present this same problems as the electric car batteries he is talking about?
I recognize the quote above as being key to many arguments about the validity of the "green agenda". I have no knowledge about it's accuracy. I suspect there is truth to what is said. I also suspect it's a case of legacy (old way) of manufacturing being used to build the next thing. So, yeah it's probably dirty. Question is... if we are soon to be flying planes using solar energy (converting solar to hydrocarbon) as way to be "carbon neutral" can't that same logic be used/applied to whatever is used to create batteries? (E.g. Excavating and processing rare elements)

I am trying to not get sucked into green energy debates here.

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Old 14 Jan 2020, 06:58 (Ref:3951520)   #10
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Pat is having a seniors moment myself.
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 11:01 (Ref:3951540)   #11
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I thought some F1 engines were already running on a form of petroleum+oil mixture.


Allegedly.


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Old 14 Jan 2020, 12:10 (Ref:3951543)   #12
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I think Pat is having a seniors moment myself.
TBH it’s a headline designed to attract attention- which it has done!
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 14:52 (Ref:3951563)   #13
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I thought some F1 engines were already running on a form of petroleum+oil mixture.


Allegedly.


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Old 14 Jan 2020, 19:13 (Ref:3951610)   #14
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And their off.....in a cloud of blue smoke.
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Old 14 Jan 2020, 19:15 (Ref:3951611)   #15
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It’s something that wouldn’t really work. Leave it as it is, don’t complicate things further
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