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View Poll Results: LMP1 privateers in 2017 and/or 2018???
Rebellion Racing 27 87.10%
ByKolles Racing Team 26 83.87%
Oak Racing 4 12.90%
SMP Racing 16 51.61%
Strakka Racing 15 48.39%
Greaves Motorsports 2 6.45%
Manor WEC 15 48.39%
Signatech Alpine 5 16.13%
Scuderia Cameron Glickenhaus 7 22.58%
Team SARD 0 0%
Team Penske 0 0%
Courage 1 3.23%
Perrinn Ltd 1 3.23%
Project Brabham 2 6.45%
HPD-Wirth 2 6.45%
Adess AG 1 3.23%
Dome 2 6.45%
Welter Racing 1 3.23%
???OTHER??? 4 12.90%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 13 Jan 2017, 20:22 (Ref:3702425)   #61
Maelochs
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
2018 is really the first opportunity, and by that point they will have more than one car.
By 2018 they Should have more than one car ... we shall see. if they get a new car or two in 2018, they Should freeze the regs for a couple more seasons, but how often does FIA-ACO do what it should?

I could see them implementing new regs for P1-L starting in 2019 which obsolete the old cars after a season ... seems like their speed.

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DPi is a brilliant class. For IMSA. I don't think it meshes well with how the ACO has setup their classes.
I agree here completely ... but that is where dollars and lobbying pressure makes strangers into bedfellows.

I'd expect (if a class including DPi were included) that there wouold have to be a cost-cap on manufacturer involvement. After all, I am sure AER sent engineers to ByKolles and Rebellion's pits at every race ... and all Cadillac and Mazda are really doing is supplying engines (as AER did) and a little bodywork ... not ongoing research and development.

By making the ACO-DPi class homologated, they would hold costs down and minimize manufacturer involvement as well.
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 08:27 (Ref:3702885)   #62
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I would love to see a new 'lightweight' class at Le Mans - Hybrid is not the only way to push new tech surely weight saving and small engines are just as beneficial.

the days of LMP 900 & 675 produced some great racing...
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 08:37 (Ref:3702888)   #63
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I think there's a bit of rose tints when it comes to LMP675. It was pretty poor throughout the entire existence of it. In the 4 years the 675s ran at Le Mans, only once did it manage to beat the GTS class, and the 3 times it didn't, they finished behind the GT class.
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 11:32 (Ref:3702923)   #64
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eps should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
There will be cars on offer from BR and Ginetta. Not sure if the BR cars will be customer cars or possibly semi customer cars e.g. SMP.. Ginetta have been signing up a few teams Manor being one.

Can't see Rebellion going back to LMP1 to be honest.

I do think that Peugeot or another manufacturer will be back and possibly another customer car option... Maybe French?

I guess it depends on the regulations, specifically engine options.

Some teams/organisations always seem to be able to find enough money to compete, year on year.. Maybe a Krohn car or a Dempsey entry? That could be interesting!
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 11:45 (Ref:3702926)   #65
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Some words here from Lawrence Tomlinson on the Ginetta effort.

http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/t...e-for-ginetta/
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 12:24 (Ref:3702933)   #66
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I am still in wait-and-see mode on this one. I have high hopes, but they are based on the high hopes and PR from Ginetta. Teams are interested in committing, but until cash changes hands and chassis are built .... Look how many cars get all the way to wind-tunnel mock-ups or even prototypes and then simply fade away like a child's dream (cheap Dome pun, there, sorry.)

I'd love to see this class attract some interest---back before hybridism was enforced, P1 was a rich and varied class, even if everyone knew that Audi or Peugeot would win and everyone else would be lucky to podium.

I guess if teams were willing to invest back then, it makes as much sense now----even more, as the winners (if not the whole field) will at least get a podium ceremony for their enormous expenditure.

The class has been a bad joke for the past two seasons, with the only suspense being, would one of the three car even finish. However ... can Ginetta carry it alone? Can ByKolles find the cash to compete for yet another couple seasons without any sort of success? Will BR actually build something?

If we don't see something tangible by mid-season, I'd write off the class. if a couple constructors actually construct something by Le Mans .... then maybe there is cause for hope.
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 16:30 (Ref:3702971)   #67
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Are the new P2 tubes accepted as P1? or there are different security rules to cover?
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 17:16 (Ref:3702977)   #68
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Are the new P2 tubes accepted as P1? or there are different security rules to cover?
As far as I know LMP2 tubs have the same dimensions as LMP1 tubs and have to pass the same crash tests.
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 18:02 (Ref:3702987)   #69
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As far as I know LMP2 tubs have the same dimensions as LMP1 tubs and have to pass the same crash tests.
Which is way too sensible for FIA, and also gives rise to hope .... theoretically, and P2 chassis is ripe for conversion.
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 19:53 (Ref:3703003)   #70
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The ACO allowed this for years, going back at least to 2006. It wasn't mandatory back then, but several constructors (Courage and Lola mainly) took advantage of it.
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 20:06 (Ref:3703009)   #71
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The ACO allowed this for years, going back at least to 2006. It wasn't mandatory back then, but several constructors (Courage and Lola mainly) took advantage of it.
LOL, Courage P1 was the basis for almost the entire ALMS P2 field ... and through Pescarolo, Oak, and Oreca, were a fair portion of P1 and P2 in Europe.

Dyson managed to make their Lola the slowest P1 and the slowest P2 ... pure genius.

Thing is, now that the chassis have to meet the same standards, the only difference in engine and bodywork, whereas before most people took the Courage chassis and did significant mods. I am hoping it would be simpler and cheaper to take spec P2, dump the radiators and motor and and a new motor----after all, a bunch of former Grand-Am teams managed to do it.
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 20:28 (Ref:3703012)   #72
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Pescarolo didn't even have a different chassis designation between LMP1 and LMP2.



The first half decent P675 cars were massively overweight converted LMP900 Reynards. The Reynard 02S was designed for both classes and its successors raced interchangeably in either class for the next decade. In P675 you could still run aluminum chassis SR2 cars though, while the later LMP2 had crash test requirements on par with LMP1.

The problem is that in the old days you could show up with a P675 car 150kg overweight and have a chance because nobody else was even close and reliable at the same time. That's actually technically true in privateer P1 now as well (actually ByKolles is both massively overweight and unreliable) but having the more expensive category be the one with a lower weight limit changes the dynamics. It doesn't really make sense to spend a ton of money to make a cost cap P2 tub super light when your budget can go to somewhere more productive than replacing already decently placed weight with ballast, so you're likely committing to a sub-optimal starting point in what's supposed to be a top level class. (once again though, the only non-manufacturer car in the class started as an overweight LMP2 let alone LMP1, but it's different if you're intending to actually tail the factories instead of maybe beat the LMP2s)
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Old 16 Jan 2017, 23:40 (Ref:3703048)   #73
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... it's different if you're intending to actually tail the factories instead of maybe beat the LMP2s)
No way any P1-L is going to compete with the factories. 1000 bhp trumps 600-700 and the rest is the same.

Plus the factories have almost unlimited budgets for testing and development, and can drill their crews as much as they want. Porsche and Toyota own racetracks; everyone else has to rent one.

Besides, FIA-ACO doesn't Want P1-L actually competing with P1-H. If that happened, the manufacturers might take their billions and go play elsewhere. P1-L will always be an also-ran category, in between P1-H and P2.

I can pretend, but really, I know I don't have the answer. I don't know how to make P1-L cost-effective and competitive and attractive to the range of teams who chased Peugeot and Audi all those years. I'd like to see the class have some life, though ... I can remember the few times I saw the Euro P1s at Sebring or Road Atlanta ... they definitely looked and sounded good going around--even if Audi and Peugeot were on another planet performance-wise.

(I'd post pics but my storage is broken ... lucky for you.)
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Old 17 Jan 2017, 01:54 (Ref:3703060)   #74
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Besides, FIA-ACO doesn't Want P1-L actually competing with P1-H. If that happened, the manufacturers might take their billions and go play elsewhere. P1-L will always be an also-ran category, in between P1-H and P2.
I think there may have been some lip service early on about performance parity, but I pretty much agree 100%

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Old 17 Jan 2017, 02:08 (Ref:3703066)   #75
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Yes, if you race against people with more money you will have a poorer chance of beating them. What about it?

The cars aren't the same, they're lighter, have more freedom in packaging without a mandatory drive and energy storage system, they have a bigger and more efficient rear wing, larger dive planes, no restrictions on number of engines, and a much higher fuel flow than the hybrid cars that gives them the most power of any cars in the field off battery. In theory the aerodynamic allowances should directly compensate for some of the power difference, especially if/when they get movable rear wings.

The factories won't pull out because they lose one race at Silverstone or something, being just close enough they can maybe steal a result occasionally is pretty much where everyone wants the class.
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