A Tyre Question

[Yoong Montoya]

I have heard a lot about Bridgestone's close relationship with Ferrari. I can understand this because Ferrari are the most likely team to win the titles for themselves and Bridgestone.

What I don't understand is: How on earth can a tyre be designed around a car? I don't even know if such a thing is possible.

I'm a bit confused:confused: Could someone fill me in here please?

[ss_collins]

its all about suspension, contact patch, setup and chassis dynamics in general - you need really to ask someone who has finished thier automotive engineering degree. But for a quick answert put a set of slicks on your road car and take it for a drive, totally different handling and wandering at high speed.

[Damon]

ss-collins is right. It is possible as the characteristics of each car are very differnet (understeer, oversteer, weoght distribution etc.), therefore having a tyre that compliments your cars particular characteristics can prove to be a very great advantage. It difference is most notable when you watch slo-mo footage of the various cars over the kerbs. You'll notice that on every car but the Ferrari the tyres ocelate terriably, where as the Ferrari's tyres remain ridgid.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
How on earth can a tyre be designed around a car?

I believe it's a bit of both, the tyre and car are designed around one another. If the Ferrari does one thing on the tyre, the team can proberbly design something (suspension wise) to compensate for what that tyre is doing. The other Bridgestone runners have to put up with the characteristic of that tyre.

[neilap]

Another important thing is that the tires that are brought to the races are the ones that best suit the Bridgestone/Ferrari. They may not be perfect for the car but it will always suit the Ferrari more than others.

These tire characteristics are true even with road cars. If you ever put aftermarket wheels and tires on your street car you can see and feel the difference. I also think it has a lot to do with the way the tires fit the wheels on the Ferrari. Traction differences and consistency can be varied much too by just the way the wheel and tire fit.

[fousto]

Damon
Some people thing that is due to a moving floor!

[Damon]

I must admit that when watching the Ferrari I just assumed it was the tyres that made the wheels stay so stable. I'm always game for a good conspiracy theory mind!

[Tye]

I know this may sound obvious, but you need to have a good car.If your car is well-balanced,and softly sprung and has soft dampers and good mechanical grip,then the driver doesn't have to drive the car to extremes.Also,if the car is good over the bumps,it will be good on the tyres.

Many people believe that the tyre is the biggest aid to faster laps.For me,it is no surprise that Ferrari have this so called "arrangement" with Bridegstone.I sure don't agree with it,but we are stuck with it,and unless there is some rule which prohibits such arrangements,we will continue to see Ferrari benefit.

I think that tyre pressure is so important,especially with the suspensions being so stiff.Tyres can actually work as springs.The front tyre pressure is more dependent on the specific car and its suspension.Tyre companies usually recommend teams ro run their cars on the minimum pressure needed for the durabilty and the safety of the tyre.Of course all teams have certain adjustments to make when they arrive at different tracks.Tyre pressures are also one of the most crucial jobs for an engineer,they are very important to get right.If you gain a half a pound in the front pressures you effect the spring value in the tyres,and that goes all the way down to the spring value of the car.So if your tyre is harder you are going to have less spring effect in the tyre.That is why a pacecar can be critical,if you slow down,you lose tyre pressure and the car can suddenly be touching the ground because the tyre shrinks.During the Senna investigation,the pacecar played a very significant role in possibly contributing to the accident for the very reason I mentioned above.

I know this may be off topic a little,but it does have to do with tyres.I remember back in 1998 when all the negativity surrounded the introduction of the grooved tyre.What I found to be ironic is that when slick tyres were introduced back in 1971 there was much the same outrage and resistance to them.The drivers resistance was so strong,and many of them remained unconvinced of their merit.The drivers equated bald or slick tyres with reduced grip,which was far from the truth.After the teams had tested the new slicks they were finding that the new slick tyres didn't reduce grip,they actually could offer an improvement.The drivers were finding that with slicks,everything was much more consistent.

It is funny how times changes such things.

Tye

[formulastudent]

The tyre can quite easilly be designed around a car. the physical geometry of the suspension can mean that certain tyres will have a much smaller contact patch with the floor than others,

I have designed a suspension for an off road vehicle (baja style thingy) and if I put a certain brand of tyres on I end up in the scenery, whereas if I put on a different tyre I can make it around said corner with ease, the difference, is that one tyre has no camber on it at all, the other tyre has 5degrees of camber on the tread, my suspension has a small ammount of camber on it also. If I try to run the flat tyre on my cambered suspension, I run on the inside 2" of a 140 section tyre and I don't grip s**t!!

If I wanted to get a really good advantage, i'd have some custom tyres too!!

[shiny side up!]

A lot of the big published names such as Smith, Milliken, Stainforth, etc, say that in an ideal situation the car would be designed around the tires, to use them to their full potential. But modeling the tire's dynamics is a tough job (even tougher than the rest of the car in its entirety)...Bridegestone and Ferrari may currently have the best model, but it is by no means perfect. This is probably why, after the car is designed and built around the existing Bridgestones, there can still be improvements made to how the car performs by adjusting the tires themselves (ie the car wasn't exactly spot-on). Of course, my assumptions could be absolutely wrong!!