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Old 9 Nov 2019, 11:09 (Ref:3939404)   #101
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Oh and as well as that Jim Clark is better than both.
And none of them are/were as good as Senna was/could have been.

After all Senna had a dominant car but also drove some pikers. He had to fight an all-time great team-mate but also ensured he was #1 at other times. He and Clark were also killed in their prime, robbing them of the chance to improve/tarnish (delete as preferred) their records.

And Hamilton's cars have been more reliable than Schumacher's, whose were more reliable than Senna and Clark's (except the McLaren, which was bullet-proof). Oh and except for Hamilton's 2016 Mercedes breaking enough times to cost him the WC, which wouldn't have been a problem for Schumacher because his team-mates weren't as good as Hamilton's even though Hamilton's car was better except when it wasn't.

McLaren was totally dominant but not as totally dominant as Ferrari who weren't as totally dominant as Mercedes and all of Ham, Sen and Sch also won championships in less dominant cars so maybe it's not all about the car. Or maybe the best drivers always somehow end up in the best car except when it's the driver who makes the car better than it would have been otherwise and sometimes drives the car better than anyone realised was possible.

Mercedes team rules gifted Hamilton some wins but cost him others, while Schumacher had a contract clause making him #1, except when he drove as a #2 returning from injury.

Hamilton and Clark also never deliberately drove their rivals off the track, ignored black flags or used cheat software.

And none of them has the win-loss record of Ascari, who drove far fewer races and had a totally dominant car until he didn't, at which point he retired,

It's all completely clear. I'm surprised there's still debate tbh.

Last edited by Anyopenroad; 9 Nov 2019 at 11:15.
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 11:22 (Ref:3939408)   #102
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I remember Max Mosley predicting that Hamilton would beat Schumi's records. How long ago was that? Just prior to the 2008, Lewis' second season in the championship.
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 13:42 (Ref:3939436)   #103
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Its pretty amazing that we are even here talking about LH a season away from breaking Shcumi's records. Never thought i would see that.

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Hamilton and Clark also never deliberately drove their rivals off the track, ignored black flags or used cheat software
The driving standard part resonates with me.

The cheating suggestions though...drivers (particularly young drivers) dont know what always goes in their cars. Surely we dont blame LH for spygate even though his career (and legend) started with driving an illegal car. Certainly i dont think Schumi should be faulted for Flavio's bs either.

Anyways hard to rank drivers of different eras. Ham is easily in my top 5 with a real shot at number 1 by the time his career ends.
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 14:32 (Ref:3939443)   #104
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It would appear to me, at least, that some have short or selective, memories about Hamilton's driving etiquette, especially in his earlier days. He had no compunction about squeezing or intimidating his opponents, and he certainly had no qualms about using his car as a weapon if he couldn't get his way.

A prime example would be his outrageous "move" on Button at the Canadian GP when Button wouldn't be intimidated by him. Hamilton's answer was to just drive into him, which put Hamilton out. I cannot remember if Button was able to continue. Another case of McLaren's drivers attacking their own teammate.
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 14:43 (Ref:3939445)   #105
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Its pretty amazing that we are even here talking about LH a season away from breaking Shcumi's records. Never thought i would see that
The one that he has to break are the number of WDCs. I think next season will be much harder for Hamilton, as the RBR/Honda/Verstappen combination improves, as well as Ferrari and Leclerc. Come 2021, there will be a new set of rules, regulations and a new car to contend with, so he will have his work cut out if he is to win 8 WDCs.
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 15:01 (Ref:3939448)   #106
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It would appear to me, at least, that some have short or selective, memories about Hamilton's driving etiquette, especially in his earlier days. He had no compunction about squeezing or intimidating his opponents, and he certainly had no qualms about using his car as a weapon if he couldn't get his way.

A prime example would be his outrageous "move" on Button at the Canadian GP when Button wouldn't be intimidated by him. Hamilton's answer was to just drive into him, which put Hamilton out. I cannot remember if Button was able to continue. Another case of McLaren's drivers attacking their own teammate.
In fairness, i would say your memories must be softening up the more extreme Senna and Schumi incidents.

Compared to them, Hammy is a saint no?
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 15:33 (Ref:3939453)   #107
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He’s no saint, however a lot of incidents happened earlier in his career and they seemed to have been more misjudgements than anything sinister.
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 17:45 (Ref:3939476)   #108
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Oh and as well as that Jim Clark is better than both.

This
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Old 9 Nov 2019, 19:19 (Ref:3939492)   #109
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The driving standard part resonates with me.

The cheating suggestions though...drivers (particularly young drivers) dont know what always goes in their cars. Surely we dont blame LH for spygate even though his career (and legend) started with driving an illegal car. Certainly i dont think Schumi should be faulted for Flavio's bs either.
You are quite right. Correction accepted.
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Old 18 Nov 2019, 14:40 (Ref:3941417)   #110
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Rightly said in the race thread that LH's admission really cost him nothing but its things like this that people will bring up one day when discussing who was the greatest.
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