TCR UK 2023

[Redron]

I don’t know anything of Sargent.
I presume he must be decent enough.

Would be nice to see Files in it but presume he has other commitments?

Shame to looks Brown. He looked quick in the first 2 rounds

[tocatrucky]

Andy Wilmot has bought the ex-Chris Wallis Hyundai i30.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Andrew Abbott

Some more data (NGTC vs TCR), not considering weather / track temperature / season etc. follows:

Fastest Brands Hatch Indy qualifying laps:

NGTC - 2022, Colin Turkington, BMW 330e M Sport, 47.539
TCR - 2018, Dan Lloyd, Volkswagen Golf GTi TCR, 48.483 (+0.944s)

Fastest Donington Park National qualifying laps:

NGTC - 2022, Jake Hill, BMW 330e M Sport, 1:08.418
TCR - 2022, Adam Shepherd, Hyundai i30 N TCR, 1:09.890 (+1.472s)

Fastest Oulton Park Island qualifying laps:

NGTC - 2022, Tom Ingram, Hyundai i30 N Fastback, 1:25.468
TCR - 2022, Max Hart, Hyundai i30 N TCR, 1:26.952 (+1.484s)

Fastest Croft qualifying lap:

NGTC - 2022, Colin Turkington, BMW 330e M Sport - 1:22.468
TCR - 2019, Lewis Kent, Hyundai i30 N TCR - 1:23.309 (+0.841s)

Not particularly a fair comparison. Different tyre compounds to begin with. Different budgets, too.

I haven't paid close attention to the pitwall as of late, but the WSR effort is huge, plenty of mechanics on hand. Not sure who's there, but plenty of minds coming together to sort the car, therefore. Area Motorsport is a professional outfit in itself, but if Files is struggling for budget then there's a chance there are fewer people on deck to help. The same applies to the other TCR UK front-runners. It might not be substantial, but it can make a difference.

I don't have direct data for TCR UK's temps, but it was a cloudy April day, windy, air temps at around 10c, and relatively high humidity. Worse for track grip, maybe a little better for engine power - denser air = more bang. It won't make a massive difference, but the motors prefer it cool and dense overall.

BTCC were running in August with track temps at 39c and a humidity of somewhere around 35%. More grip for a one-off lap (worse over a race distance, though) and lower humidity.

Smooth is usually faster than sideways and squirrely, as cool as it looks.

[FIRE]

One second faster or slower...does it really matter?

[tocatrucky]

Originally Posted by Alessio

Not particularly a fair comparison. Different tyre compounds to begin with. Different budgets, too.

I haven't paid close attention to the pitwall as of late, but the WSR effort is huge, plenty of mechanics on hand. Not sure who's there, but plenty of minds coming together to sort the car, therefore. Area Motorsport is a professional outfit in itself, but if Files is struggling for budget then there's a chance there are fewer people on deck to help. The same applies to the other TCR UK front-runners. It might not be substantial, but it can make a difference.

I don't have direct data for TCR UK's temps, but it was a cloudy April day, windy, air temps at around 10c, and relatively high humidity. Worse for track grip, maybe a little better for engine power - denser air = more bang. It won't make a massive difference, but the motors prefer it cool and dense overall.

BTCC were running in August with track temps at 39c and a humidity of somewhere around 35%. More grip for a one-off lap (worse over a race distance, though) and lower humidity.

Smooth is usually faster than sideways and squirrely, as cool as it looks.

So short of running on the same day with the same driver in cars prepared by the same team, a comparison isn't worth doing? Sounds a tad...silly, no?

From watching in person,and talking to folks far more knowledgable than I, (race winning drivers and engineers in both categories) who have been involved in both NGTC and TCR cars, the TCRs asre slower in most given circumstances and not that much cheaper to operate per KM especially factoring in damage in race coditions.

[Sodemo]

You could easily gain a second just through a better tyre, ive no idea what the TCR tyres are relative to the BTCC Dunlops, but that alone could make them more equal, plus the BTCC cars have around 30bhp more, so again, thats probably worth another second at least.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

So short of running on the same day with the same driver in cars prepared by the same team, a comparison isn't worth doing? Sounds a tad...silly, no?

From watching in person,and talking to folks far more knowledgable than I, (race winning drivers and engineers in both categories) who have been involved in both NGTC and TCR cars, the TCRs asre slower in most given circumstances and not that much cheaper to operate per KM especially factoring in damage in race coditions.

If you want to find a fair comparison, then yes. Same day, same tyres, same condition, same driver, same wet weight, same set-up prep. Otherwise, it’s a waste of time to make the comparison. Not that you need to anyway. They’re not on the same grid. If you win, you win. Regardless of whether your grid is a second slower or not.

BTCC and TCR aren’t comparable in the first place. One is relatively open regs, the other is a semi-spec series where the cars are BOP’d anyway.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

not that much cheaper to operate per KM especially factoring in damage in race coditions.

Would also be interested to know the full details on this. TCR Australia promoted running costs at around £120k for a season, and it's about that much for a fresh car.

Cars are around the same in BTCC, but budgets for a year are pushing towards £500k for a season if you want to be at the front. I'm sure you could do it for less than half of that, if you wanted, but that's probably what some of the 'gentleman' drivers running towards the mid-rear are at. Maybe a few squeezing towards the front on a good day.

[Petoli]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

Andy Wilmot has bought the ex-Chris Wallis Hyundai i30.

Wilmot campaigned his own I30 last year, towards the end of the year brought an ex Brutal Fish Civic which i believe is the car now campaigned by Scott Sumpton this year

Wilmot brought and I30 ran that, im assuming he sold it and brought a civic and then sold that and has now acquired another I30?

[Andrew Abbott]

Originally Posted by Alessio

Not particularly a fair comparison. Different tyre compounds to begin with. Different budgets, too.

I didn't say it was fair, but it was a start. Your contextual data is welcomed. But people are still interested in comparisons, even though the conditions aren't always comparable.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by Andrew Abbott

I didn't say it was fair, but it was a start. Your contextual data is welcomed. But people are still interested in comparisons, even though the conditions aren't always comparable.

I appreciate that, Andrew, and I know you mention that in your post. It was more in response to the post you've quoted whilst also making use of your data.

My point only being that it's hard to make a direct comparison unless you stick them on the track at the same time.

[coffinpilot]

I asked a Goodyear guy - the one who is on TV sometimes at BTCC races about that last year. I don't get the technical terms on it totally, but in essence he said the core of the TCR UK tyre and BTCC tyre are the same, but the outer compound of the TCR Tyre is harder. Because they run them for longer. With the BTCC essentially going through three sets of tyres on race day - at £300 a corner (That's £3600 on race day alone at retail price.) He wouldn't say if the teams don't pay full whack.

He did say though that TCR testing is unlimited.

[Redron]

Any news on how many entrants for Croft,

Looking forward to attending

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by Redron

Any news on how many entrants for Croft,

Looking forward to attending

Not sure whether Sargeant is running the i30 or the Elantra.
Brown is gone to TCR Europe. Trotter appears to have followed through in his huff.
Winfield and Shepherd we'll find out next week if they have the money to race.
Files and Camp was a one off.
Tonks still hasn't sold his car.
Wilmot has posted a picture of his i30 in white - with the TCR UK sticker and sponsors for this year.
That still adds up to a 20 car grid in a worst case scenario.

[coffinpilot]

Winfield is in on Insta he said he has a sponsor dunno if its just for the weekend
Shepherd is out of this round with money issues but isnt out for the year

[redshoes]

Reply to Shepherd's FB post from Mark Smith says he won't be out at Croft either

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Reply to Shepherd's FB post from Mark Smith says he won't be out at Croft either

It's a shame. He's got some speed that lad. Could have matured into a real title challenger, but I wouldn't rule that out if he can run the rest of the year without trouble.

Have seen the George Jaxon car up for sale
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/De...en-2-cupra-tcr

I wonder if he's given up. He looks way, way out of his depth. Should do some club racing really before stepping up, not a good look for the series.

Also spotted the Darron Lewis car has had its photos updated on the same site. And a few ex-TCR UK from last year or so - Russel Joyce Cupra, PMR Cupra, three x i10 (Lewis/Brad Kent, Scott Sumpton, Max Hart.) Cant' see anyone wanting to buy old Audi or Cupra now, but the Hyundai still seems a good bet for a bargain entry.

The Dan Lloyd Golf is up there too - club car at best now.

[Evantra]

https://twitter.com/tcruk_series/sta...T11pmdgnSSDQzA

19 drivers for Croft - Wilmott rejoins.

No Shepherd, Jaxon or the Elantra.

[SSmith]

Originally Posted by Evantra

https://twitter.com/tcruk_series/sta...T11pmdgnSSDQzA

19 drivers for Croft - Wilmott rejoins.

No Shepherd, Jaxon or the Elantra.

I notice Carl Boardley is no longer running under the Zest banner - he's entered as CBM with Hart GT

[SSmith]

Garry Townsend also appears to now be a privateer after having been entered under the Paul Sheard Racing banner at Snetterton

[Redron]

Shame to not see the elantra out again

[annasto]

The Shepherd car is pictured in garage photo Winfield posted alongside his car, Ley and Wilmot

Sent from my moto g62 5G using Tapatalk

[samchevron]

Watching the race two Livestream yesterday, Stewart Lines said that there will be two Hyundai Elantra's out at Oulton Park next time.

Luke Sargeant in one and Jamie Tonks in another maybe?

[Redron]

Originally Posted by samchevron

Watching the race two Livestream yesterday, Stewart Lines said that there will be two Hyundai Elantra's out at Oulton Park next time.

Luke Sargeant in one and Jamie Tonks in another maybe?

I spoke to someone at the circuit Sunday who seemed to think tonks would be out for oulton so I presume that’s the 2

[geordiecriag101]

A little bit late, but here's my vid from Sundays action at Croft for anyone who interested:

https://youtu.be/XUTKqxuGjE8