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Old 23 Jan 2019, 13:49 (Ref:3877927)   #16
Peter Mallett
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I recall raising these points (no pun intended) from the perspective of professionals driving the amateur out of historic motorsport. Because it seems to me that the professional teams are the ones driving this and it started with Mustangs which were being beaten by Falcons (something to do with headers as I understand it); and thus all of a sudden Ford Motorsport blocks were being used. This permitted higher revs and so along came roller rockers etc.

I think it was one of our number who cried enough and sold the Falcon.

The reliability thing is a two edged sword. I like the idea of points but the only time I've failed to finish due to electrics was when the points broke at Spa a few years ago! So, as long as it's ok to run it, I run electronic ignition in the MG.

The Rover was born with EI so is not an issue. That said I can't believe the "development" I've seen on some of the Group 1.5 cars over the past five years. Things that were homologated in period but now provide much more power because they have the same name but are so much more efficient.

A Group 1.5 Capri engine in its best tune in period was 250BHP, now they are throwing out 300BHP and revving beyond anything that could be done in period.
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Old 23 Jan 2019, 14:19 (Ref:3877935)   #17
Gerard C
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It so good to have people speaking their truth here. Whatever the opinion, at least its democratic and knowledgeable.
Grant, there are replacement parts allowed, just have a look to Appendix K, Minis, and Big Healey's and BD engines are concerned to name few. All the details of castings are written and the makers are named (Welch for a Healey, Swift for a Mini, Richardson…)
I can't be called rich because far from being, but to have my next engine checked and sealed for capacity, valves diameter and stuff seems a very good thing. The increase in cost looks worth the relief. I just hope a UK seal will be accepted on another continent but I can't see any reason why it wouldn't!
Cliff Ryan, I'd love to say you're wrong saying a majority of competitors want to win at all costs…*but…
Zef, 36° is to much for my purse! Anyway thank you for suggesting!!
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Old 23 Jan 2019, 23:13 (Ref:3878066)   #18
Geraint Owen
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It strikes me that Masters may be onto something with the imposition of rev limits. It is a relatively easy way to control the out of hand development. I am sure that it will lead to a mass of development of max torque engines, but as an interim it is easy to achieve and at least makes some of us amateurs feel the playfield is slightly level

On the subject of lap time improvements mentioned on the U2TC thread, the other factor is brake pad material improvements. Although this is a relatively low cost option and is available to all

The real challenge has to be to stop the more wealthy owners bashing into me when I am in front of them!!!!
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 08:00 (Ref:3878117)   #19
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coppice should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridcoppice should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridcoppice should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I absolutely understand the anger and frustration of owners of genuine , virtually unmolested old racing cars . It must be galling to see one's lovingly preserved piece of heritage being left for dead by a car whose oldest component is its driver , and which attains speeds an original could not even begin to match .Not back then, even with a Clark behind the wheel.



There's another side though. BTCC apart , most modern racing in UK is f***ed . Small grids , too many tedious spec formuale , cars with no soul but insane grip and silly costs . But go to an HSCC or CSCC meeting and for most races you will see big grids and great racing . And drivers , teams and spectators enjoying themselves .



Why ? Because some younger drivers have given up the struggle of getting a budget for a drive in BTCC or GT , other , older drivers are having fun in their dotage and regular Joes are racing a car they know won't depreciate like a modern will. They all love driving analogue cars with no aero and no paddle shifts . And we know what happens when a series becomes big - winning becomes more important and the envelope starts to be pushed in both driving standards and car preparation.



Historic racing is always an oxymoron - we haven't got time machines and we cherry pick the best of what we think we remember of the past and ignore the stuff we didn't like so much - y'know , all that bad stuff like fire, injury and death, amateur hour marshalling , rubbish catering and people blowing Woodbine smoke in your face . So we end up with Goodwood , and the host of Classics which every circuit now runs. They are all homages to the past , often pastiches and sometimes parodies - but they are popular.



The cars have followed exactly the same pattern and the only surprising thing is that anybody is remotely surprised ...
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 08:03 (Ref:3878118)   #20
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Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The point should be made that every time there is a rule change - of pretty much any type - the wealthier competitor gets an advantage. Restrict the revs and its feasible that people can make lighter pistons, lighter crankshafts, revised camshafts, more testing to optimise the settings - the simple fact that some competitors can rent an entire circuit to facilitate the process divides us anyway. Mandate suspension settings and the same criteria kick in.
However, as before, I make the point that the times of Jan Magnussen and Jamie Spence in 1600 Formula Ford set in 1992 at Mallory Park have still not been beaten, with all the car development since then. Contrast that with the year on year development in Historic racing and we now see Lotus 15s 9 seconds a lap faster than Graham Hill in the works car in the final round of the 1959 World Championship at Goodwood.
The fact is that there should not be development in Historic racing. If everyone was still running the precise, mandated period specification components none of this would be necessary.
As some one far wiser than me once wrote “Historic racing is a discipline apart, in which one of the essential ingredients is a devotion to the cars and their history....”
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 08:12 (Ref:3878119)   #21
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
HFF is one of the few series which maintains any sensibility. I'm doing a few heads for someone at the moment, it's as pleasureable as grinding iron can be as I have a few excellent bench marks on the flow bench and in my note book, and there's no pressure or desire to try and reinvent the wheel or cheat!
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 08:16 (Ref:3878120)   #22
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HFF2000 stands out too, for the same reasons.
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 08:22 (Ref:3878122)   #23
Simon Hadfield
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Simon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSimon Hadfield should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quality of regulation and competence of scrutiny. It’s not rocket science.
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 08:41 (Ref:3878129)   #24
Mike Bell
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Quality of regulation and competence of scrutiny. It’s not rocket science.
Precisely!
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 08:46 (Ref:3878130)   #25
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HFF2000 stands out too, for the same reasons.
Same thing here with HF3, even if the grid size is in no way comparable. Scrutiny is mainly focused on wings and airboxes the ambiance is relaxed. And the best scrutineer is often you box neighbor…
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 18:11 (Ref:3878302)   #26
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I guess it must be a little easier with formula cars of relative simplicity, as all cars follow the same regs. With saloons and GT's the regs may be the same but the details of each car, are all different.
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 18:24 (Ref:3878308)   #27
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I guess it must be a little easier with formula cars of relative simplicity, as all cars follow the same regs. With saloons and GT's the regs may be the same but the details of each car, are all different.
Of course. It does make you think, however, that if you want to compete on a level playing field, the best way is with certain categories of historic single seaters....
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Old 24 Jan 2019, 18:24 (Ref:3878309)   #28
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I guess it must be a little easier with formula cars of relative simplicity, as all cars follow the same regs.
Absolutely. Clear, long established and easy to police regulation. A little bit more difficult when it comes to the Formule Renault Turbo.
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 09:56 (Ref:3878491)   #29
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Agreed . . .but most of us got into it with the car we like as opposed to having a desperate desire to win a plastic pot.

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Of course. It does make you think, however, that if you want to compete on a level playing field, the best way is with certain categories of historic single seaters....
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Old 25 Jan 2019, 10:25 (Ref:3878496)   #30
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I guess you have a dedicated scrutineering team for each successful series/club. We use to have one competent guy, a former Ford F employee, but when it came to make a file about every car at the start of the season, safety devices-weight-tracks-wheel base- carbs diameters, all went wrong for various reasons.
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