[BTCC] BTCC 2023 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by thetool

But longer-term it (or some other as yet undiscovered option) is the only option. Fossil fuel powered cars are rapidly being eliminated in the UK. Of course it will probably take several more decades until they are totally gone, but in terms of what manufacturers want to promote and what is relevant to public, EV is the way the series will have to go.

EVs might not be as bad for the environment as traditional petrol or diesel cars, but they certainly are not good for the environment when you consider the metals used in batteries and the way that they mined and manufactured. Then factor in the way that electricity is generated in many areas around the world, and the whole things begins to look less green.

I do wonder whether there there will be a different alternative somewhere down the line that truly is better/

[coffinpilot]

I remember reading a while back about what cars on the market are suitable for the BTCC and there wasn't many that weren't already in there. I'm sure the Focus only fits the length with the bodykit on, but not in road spec.

I know EV is the future and all that Jazz, but I wonder of the future of the BTCC in the interim might be slightly smaller cars? A friend said he thought 1.6 litre engines and smaller hatchbacks were the future, but my opinion is that we're stuck having 2 litre NGTC for a long while yet. I don't think teams would accept two types of car like when NGTC came in, and a mass change of engine regs/chassis regs is just unaffordable.

BTCC like F1 needs to decide if it's entertainment or marketing based - at the moment it's entertainment, loud engines and synthetic fuels is the way to go.

On another thing altogether though, I'd love someone with deep pockets to put a TOCA engine in a Tesla and race that!

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

On another thing altogether though, I'd love someone with deep pockets to put a TOCA engine in a Tesla and race that!

impossible

the base car has to have a petrol or diesel engine

[billy bleach]

[QUOTE=coffinpilot;4169280]I remember reading a while back about what cars on the market are suitable for the BTCC and there wasn't many that weren't already in there. I'm sure the Focus only fits the length with the bodykit on, but not in road spec.


If that is / was the case how come the Mini Countryman wasn’t allowed in? Surely it’s the road car length that counts?

[auroan]

[QUOTE=billy bleach;4169291]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

If that is / was the case how come the Mini Countryman wasn’t allowed in? Surely it’s the road car length that counts?

I believe that was a manufacturer issue, not a TOCA issue.

[crmalcolm]

[QUOTE=billy bleach;4169291]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

I remember reading a while back about what cars on the market are suitable for the BTCC and there wasn't many that weren't already in there. I'm sure the Focus only fits the length with the bodykit on, but not in road spec.


If that is / was the case how come the Mini Countryman wasn’t allowed in? Surely it’s the road car length that counts?

They allow cars close to the minimum length usually.

The current Next Generation Touring Car regulations require a minimum length of 4400mm, but the Clubman is actually only 4266mm in length.

The Focus is 4378mm in length.

[BtccLee]

Whilst Bobby's exit is very frustrating, from his perspective and for the fans... Given the scale of the financial and political turmoil in the last six months, we've actually seen very few changes with respect to drivers/teams this season.

If anything it has been one of the more stable years in this respect in recent memory.

Wish him well and hopefully, he will be back on the grid very soon.

[hen henths]

Yes I'm sorry to see Thompson go as well. He was exciting to watch and I feel like his best was yet to come.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

A friend said he thought 1.6 litre engines and smaller hatchbacks were the future, but my opinion is that we're stuck having 2 litre NGTC for a long while yet.

I don't think the move of the WRC from 2.0L Focuses to 1.6L Fiestas (and now Pumas!) did it any good IMO. So I do not think that would be a useful step to take.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I don't think the move of the WRC from 2.0L Focuses to 1.6L Fiestas (and now Pumas!) did it any good IMO. So I do not think that would be a useful step to take.

Yeah, that's always a problem for any motorsport to stay relevant vs exciting. Touring cars have to resemble road cars and theoretically the best option from the marketing standpoint is to have regulations that suit the most popular type of cars. So in the UK, for the BTCC the best cars could either be SUVs (which would look awkward in racing) or small-engine hatchbacks. That's not particularly exciting, is it and therefore, from the pure 'excitement' standpoint, something like Supercars is a lot more appealing - yet critics say irrelevant.

IMO, cars such as Focus, Civic, 3 Series, etc can still be pretty exciting (although ideally they'd have more power, be faster and possibly RWD) but can't see almost any excitement if they got replaced by Fiestas, Corsas and such. Some may say that's just the length of the car but makes a difference for me.

That's a bit of an offtop but seeing the direction the motor industry is heading to, I'm quite curious (and worried) to see where the touring car racing is headed. Motorsport such as F1, FE, IndyCar, NASCAR will still be more or less in their 'style' (wanted to say exciting but FE is an exception here) but if the best selling cars are electric, small and uninspiring, can't really see an appealing future for the touring car.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Yeah, that's always a problem for any motorsport to stay relevant vs exciting. Touring cars have to resemble road cars and theoretically the best option from the marketing standpoint is to have regulations that suit the most popular type of cars. So in the UK, for the BTCC the best cars could either be SUVs (which would look awkward in racing) or small-engine hatchbacks. That's not particularly exciting, is it and therefore, from the pure 'excitement' standpoint, something like Supercars is a lot more appealing - yet critics say irrelevant.

IMO, cars such as Focus, Civic, 3 Series, etc can still be pretty exciting (although ideally they'd have more power, be faster and possibly RWD) but can't see almost any excitement if they got replaced by Fiestas, Corsas and such. Some may say that's just the length of the car but makes a difference for me.

That's a bit of an offtop but seeing the direction the motor industry is heading to, I'm quite curious (and worried) to see where the touring car racing is headed. Motorsport such as F1, FE, IndyCar, NASCAR will still be more or less in their 'style' (wanted to say exciting but FE is an exception here) but if the best selling cars are electric, small and uninspiring, can't really see an appealing future for the touring car.

And then the Elephant in the room - ICE days are numbered in UK.....

[auroan]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

And then the Elephant in the room - ICE days are numbered in UK.....

We'll see. The inane ability to do any large scale infra projects by any gov the UK has had, means the lack of viable road side EV charging and an overloaded grid will remove or extend the no ICE sale ban.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

And then the Elephant in the room - ICE days are numbered in UK.....

Originally Posted by auroan

We'll see. The inane ability to do any large scale infra projects by any gov the UK has had, means the lack of viable road side EV charging and an overloaded grid will remove or extend the no ICE sale ban.

All debated elsewhere at great length. Usually resulting in claims of propaganda, conspiracy theories and naivety. And not really relevant to the 2023 BTCC season......

[Sodemo]

I seriously doubt the ban on petrol and diesel new cars will actually go ahead in 2030. The infrastructure and pricing model is just no where near ready for the masses.

There is also now doubt that EV's are the future anyway. Hydrogen power is picking up traction now, however I concede the market forces are all backing EV's so who knows.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

All debated elsewhere at great length. Usually resulting in claims of propaganda, conspiracy theories and naivety. And not really relevant to the 2023 BTCC season......

And debating future base model cars is?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

All debated elsewhere at great length. Usually resulting in claims of propaganda, conspiracy theories and naivety. And not really relevant to the 2023 BTCC season......

Oh I don't know, those claims are often aimed at comments about the BTCC!

[auroan]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I seriously doubt the ban on petrol and diesel new cars will actually go ahead in 2030. The infrastructure and pricing model is just no where near ready for the masses.

There is also now doubt that EV's are the future anyway. Hydrogen power is picking up traction now, however I concede the market forces are all backing EV's so who knows.

And the seeds of doubt are now being sown

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/business-government-and-legislation/prime-minister-casts-doubt-2030-combustion-car-ban

[Tracsmart]

Correct statement, witness the event at Lydden Hill with the Lancia EV Rallycross car. the complete team truck and both Lancia's burnt out during charging.
Not an unknown problem in the industry especially with vehicles that have been involved in an accident. Recovery and storage companies experience the issue of EV vehicles catching fire and when they do, nothing extinguishes the fire easily. Damaged cars that are stored are treated like unexploded bombs.
Imaging the scene where more than one competing race cars incur a serious accident, it doesn't bear thinking about.

A vast amount of research is required in view of the potential fire hazards.
Bring on sustainable fuels for ICE vehicles and or Hydrogen.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Tracsmart

Correct statement, witness the event at Lydden Hill with the Lancia EV Rallycross car. the complete team truck and both Lancia's burnt out during charging.
Not an unknown problem in the industry especially with vehicles that have been involved in an accident. Recovery and storage companies experience the issue of EV vehicles catching fire and when they do, nothing extinguishes the fire easily. Damaged cars that are stored are treated like unexploded bombs.
Imaging the scene where more than one competing race cars incur a serious accident, it doesn't bear thinking about.

A vast amount of research is required in view of the potential fire hazards.
Bring on sustainable fuels for ICE vehicles and or Hydrogen.

While the severity of fire risk is high, the occurrence is very low. There are a few electric based series around the world now, this is the first incident I have heard about - and you would expect more given they are pushing the technology boundaries.
On the flip side, there was a fire in the paddock at Snetterton in 2021 with no EVs involved.

[AnnoyedMoose]

Can we stop with the ICE/battery/hydrogen debates? This isn't the thread for it. There are plenty of multi-page debates all over the internet.

[Racing Harz]

Originally Posted by antnee

There are a few electric based series around the world now, this is the first incident I have heard about - and you would expect more given they are pushing the technology boundaries.

https://www.motorsport.com/motoe/new...aster/4353463/

[crmalcolm]

So which teams do we expect to return after the summer break in the 2023 BTCC Season with an all-new EV based model?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So which teams do we expect to return after the summer break in the 2023 BTCC Season with an all-new EV based model?

New two car team Drivers Bobby Thomson and Nyck DeVries , entered by Kia UK and prepared by VLM

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So which teams do we expect to return after the summer break in the 2023 BTCC Season with an all-new EV based model?

It's not April 1st?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So which teams do we expect to return after the summer break in the 2023 BTCC Season with an all-new EV based model?

Dan Rowbottom was driving the MG EX4 at Goodwood, that could just about pass for a BTCC car if you squint!