2023 Season

[Gerard C]

What to do during holydays when you're Max? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtfutUHYfO8

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

so will go for Sainz and Chuck being so close at the mid season break is the bigger surprise for me. by season's end i suspect Leclerc will clearly be on top tho.

Any particular reason why? Or is it just the general view that Charles is better and eventually this season he'll prove it?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Any particular reason why? Or is it just the general view that Charles is better and eventually this season he'll prove it?

while i for sure rate Sainz highly, i do also agree with the general consensus that CL is the faster of the two and certainly faster over one lap. so definitely personal opinion creeping in but also imo his new Ferrari contract firmly places him as their clear number 1 and who their support will be behind (would even say who their support has to be behind) going forward.

but we wont know until all the races are run.

[S griffin]

I think Leclerc is the faster over one lap and also the one more willing to take it to the edge, hence why we have seen the odd mistake from him. But it’s also got him results at times

[peebee2]

Sainz is a number two all day long. Any day.

[S griffin]

Nonsense, there is no reason why he couldn’t lead a team. His drive at Silverstone last year was first class

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Sainz is a number two all day long. Any day.

Agreed. See also Massa/Barichello/Irvine. Able to pick up when the star fails but not the star in themselves. Very, very good drivers but missing that little star quality to mark them out as serial champions.

Is Leclerc a #1? Jury still out.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Nonsense, there is no reason why he couldn’t lead a team. His drive at Silverstone last year was first class

Really, he’s miles off in every way.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Nonsense, there is no reason why he couldn’t lead a team. His drive at Silverstone last year was first class

Really, he’s miles off in every way.

There are obvious reasons why Ferrari want to pay Leclerc €200m and might or might not keep Sainz at the same time.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Agreed. See also Massa/Barichello/Irvine. Able to pick up when the star fails but not the star in themselves. Very, very good drivers but missing that little star quality to mark them out as serial champions.

Is Leclerc a #1? Jury still out.

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

Trouble is so many drivers have been written off as just no.2s or journeymen as long as i've been followimg because they had M,.A or X as teammate etc etc

Massa proved he could lead a team and mount title challenges at Ferrari alongside a top gun like Kimi.

Rubens was very highly rated until he joined Ferrari alomgside Schuey and on the days Brawn gave him.free reign he was often incredibly quick

The big questions for me usually boils down to this: Would X have been capable of beimg a no.1 or a real title contender if Y hadn't been in the sister car?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Really, he’s miles off in every way.

There are obvious reasons why Ferrari want to pay Leclerc €200m and might or might not keep Sainz at the same time.

He's not 'miles off', he's actually proved he can match and beat Leclerc on enough occasions. Just because he's not quick over one lap as Leclerc does not mean he hasn't got strengths

Leclerc may be Ferrari's favourite, but they've shown they value Sainz too.

I agree with Chunt, just because some drivers aren't as quick as their superstar team mates doesn't mean they can't challenge for the title given the right opportunity

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

He's not 'miles off', he's actually proved he can match and beat Leclerc on enough occasions. Just because he's not quick over one lap as Leclerc does not mean he hasn't got strengths

Leclerc may be Ferrari's favourite, but they've shown they value Sainz too.

I agree with Chunt, just because some drivers aren't as quick as their superstar team mates doesn't mean they can't challenge for the title given the right opportunity

Sure he can win on his day. But he's really not team leader material, not by a long chalk.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Sainz is a number two all day long. Any day.

By what measure?

Compared to Leclerc, he might be the #2 at the moment. That doesn't mean that in another team, or with another teammate, he couldn't be a #1.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

By what measure?

Compared to Leclerc, he might be the #2 at the moment. That doesn't mean that in another team, or with another teammate, he couldn't be a #1.

Valued opinions and experience, and I don't necessarily mean just mine!

These are the reasons why you'll find Leclerc mentioned as a real superstar, and Sainz has moved from team to team, taking good opportunities as they arise.

He's a competent pair of hands for sure, but I've never heard anyone call him a potential real top-liner or team leader, other than senior of course - not that he's alone in that.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

By what measure?

Compared to Leclerc, he might be the #2 at the moment. That doesn't mean that in another team, or with another teammate, he couldn't be a #1.

Exactly. When Max left STR to go RBR, Sainz continued to get great results for the team, certainly more than his team mate Kvyat. And I’d also say his stint at McLaren proves he can be a good #1

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Valued opinions and experience, I don't necessarily mean just mine!

There are reasons why you'll find Leclerc mentioned as a real superstar, and Sainz has moved from team to team, taking good opportunities as they arise.

He's a competent pair of hands for sure, but I've never heard anyone call him a potential real top-liner, other than senior of course.

I’ve heard plenty saying Sainz had untapped potential and he just needed a top car. At least before he went to Ferrari. The jury might be a bit more out on him now, but he still has time to prove himself. He’s still only 29.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I’ve heard plenty saying Sainz had untapped potential and he just needed a top car.

Are these telly/media or people who actually work in and actually understand the sport?

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I’ve heard plenty saying Sainz had untapped potential and he just needed a top car. At least before he went to Ferrari. The jury might be a bit more out on him now, but he still has time to prove himself. He’s still only 29.

No. Good on his day but, as others have said, not a top team number 1.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Are these telly/media or people who actually work in and actually understand the sport?

Yes, I’ve heard a few journos say it in the past. Just because you didn’t hear it doesn’t mean it wasn’t said

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes, I’ve heard a few journos say it in the past. Just because you didn’t hear it doesn’t mean it wasn’t said

err ...... has someone missed the point here?

[crmalcolm]

Damon Hill: “Charles is clearly quick. Carlos has struck me as actually the more of the team leader. He seems to be more familiar with the strategy, seems to be able to make decisions.”

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Damon Hill: “Charles is clearly quick. Carlos has struck me as actually the more of the team leader. He seems to be more familiar with the strategy, seems to be able to make decisions.”

just an uniformed fan so dont know who that is. do they work in the paddock?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

just an uniformed fan so dont know who that is. do they work in the paddock?

He did. 25 years ago. A good example of a number two driver who got to lead the massively dominant team of the time when there was a tragedy.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Valued opinions and experience, and I don't necessarily mean just mine!

These are the reasons why you'll find Leclerc mentioned as a real superstar, and Sainz has moved from team to team, taking good opportunities as they arise.

He's a competent pair of hands for sure, but I've never heard anyone call him a potential real top-liner or team leader, other than senior of course - not that he's alone in that.

Leclerc's been in F1 since Melbourne 2018 and has started 114 GPs. He's had 27 podiums, 20 poles, 7 fastest laps and 5 wins. For someone who is supposed to be a superstar, are those good stats?

It's not unusual for drivers to move from team to team, that's one way they can further their careers.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Leclerc's been in F1 since Melbourne 2018 and has started 114 GPs. He's had 27 podiums, 20 poles, 7 fastest laps and 5 wins. For someone who is supposed to be a superstar, are those good stats?

Yes, for the machinery he’s had. Hence he’s generally rated as the fastest outright driver, if not the best overall racer as per Verstappen is and Hamilton maybe was.

Hence Charles get the big bucks and Carlos gets what’s left over.