[V8SC09R21&22] The Island 300, Phillip Island

[Jacob Black]

jesus bloody christ, what a bunch of self important bloody whingebags. get over yourselves, seriously, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people, who would jump a t the chance to be part of this particular show. just cause you've sat on a flag mound for 20 years (admirable as that is) doesn't mean you;re the be all and end all of aus motorsport. this forum has more whiney *****es than any ive seen.
seriously you lot, grow the **** up.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

jesus bloody christ, what a bunch of self important bloody whingebags. get over yourselves, seriously, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people, who would jump a t the chance to be part of this particular show. just cause you've sat on a flag mound for 20 years (admirable as that is) doesn't mean you;re the be all and end all of aus motorsport. this forum has more whiney *****es than any ive seen.
seriously you lot, grow the **** up.

So does this mean you are going to volunteer instead of being one of the "bunch of self important bloody whingebags", knowing full well that if you go out there with no training and you make a mistake, you could ultimately finish up in a Coroners Court (like a number of officials did after a certain FI event in Melbourne)

And I take it by this statement "whiney *****es than any ive seen. seriously you lot, grow the **** up" that you will be ringing the VFT to offer up your help - well done Tony's Spruiker -

Very soon you will have realised just how many volunteer officials frequent this forum, whilst I am not one now, I have been one for a number of years, inlcuding at the stupid V8's.

Cochrane is an idiot who should have realised the impact of his decision when he made it, instead of running around at the 11th hour trying to fix it, and fix it (as GTR might be suggesting) by offering LESS to the voulnteers than what is normally on offer at the Island, and just so you understand what is on offer, it is probably just lunch for 2 days and a hat.

So STFU and get in and help instead of bleating on here - ******!!!!

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

it is probably just lunch for 2 days and a hat.

So, 2 days lunch and a hat more than we get up here, I'll rush straight over!

Unfortunately too many of the big cheeses in motorsport think officiating is:
a) easy, and
b) done by people who just want to get in free.

Every so often they find neither is true because either:
a) something serious happens and the well trained and highly experienced officials deal with it, or
b) they stick something on without any regard for competing events, prior commitments or the fact that said well trained and highly experienced officials are few in number and already spread too thinly over the existing events and actually don't think you're so important they must drop everything and rush over there to save your skin.

It's a beautiful moment when it happens. Since the event seems to be being organised purely to fulfil a lucrative and binding contractual agreement, maybe the solution would be to properly reward said officials for turning up. Not necessarily by paying them cash in hand as that misunderstands their altruism and dedication, but by paying into a fund which will provide them with improved working conditions and facilities for all meetings at which they provide a service.

Marshals and officials are an essential and much overlooked resource, and it amazes me how often people bag them for just asking for a little respect. You could, of course, run a meeting entirely without them, but I guarantee it will be a mess which hopefully everyone will survive. And yes, I mean that literally.

[Jeff 8]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Commodore Cup ?

I heard maybe Superbikes again.

Jeff

[Jacob Black]

hmmm... I definately went in too hard with my post, and I'd like to apologise for that. I was pms-ing after a bit of an eventful ragged night (not an excuse, but a mitigator I hope). You are not whiney *****es, and I ought to be more careful with how I express my discord with posts.

I honestly do think that there are a lot of people who are too quick to whinge and moan and criticise everything. I wonder how much is just cochrane bashing, and how much is warranted.

As far as the shortage of officials go, that IS slightly problematic, but I don't see how all the sniping going on here is helpful. I seriously doubt that there will be any issues with officials on the day, hell, they'll probably outnumber the crowd!

It really gets to me, that the people who give up so much to be part of motorsport, seem so horribly embittered by everything V8 Supercars and can't say a single thing about it. What a sad state.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

that the people who give up so much to be part of motorsport, seem so horribly embittered by everything V8 Supercars and can't say a single thing about it. What a sad state.

Yet V8SA don't seem to care about it

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

It really gets to me, that the people who give up so much to be part of motorsport, seem so horribly embittered by everything V8 Supercars and can't say a single thing about it. What a sad state.

I won't say apology accepted - sorry.

However your statement here makes me ask you is, WHY are so many embittered by everything V8?

You will have guessed by now that this forum is frequented by a lot of people who on the inside of Australian motorsport, these are not people on the outside looking in, but real participants.

And yes, there is an exceptionally high amount of people who believe that the V8 cricus is raping and pillaging all in front of them, including the governing body. Then they wonder why people don't want to go out their way to help.

5 or 6 years ago people were falling over themselves to be involved in all things V8, but it just isn't the case anymore, even the fans are getting very wary of the whole show.

[bazil]

Originally Posted by Big Trev

I won't say apology accepted - sorry.

That’s Big of YOU trev...

However your statement here makes me ask you is, WHY are so many embittered by everything V8?

Says who?? You and a couple of others like DRT the tree hugger? Its always the same few on here that spend most of their time being anything but proactive, preferring to stick with useless negativity.

You will have guessed by now that this forum is frequented by a lot of people who on the inside of Australian motorsport, these are not people on the outside looking in, but real participants.

So what? Insider or outsiders all on here have a voice. As a Flag waiver, you are participant in the sport, because you want to. It’s not a job and you are not saving the country or feeding the homeless, you are doing something that is fun and gets you in the action and on the other side of the fence...

And yes, there is an exceptionally high amount of people who believe that the V8 cricus is raping and pillaging all in front of them, including the governing body.

That is a complete load of crap and I would have thought the sort of thing you would expect to hear from a couple of other boof heads on here and not you. Regardless of your view with the PI300 and the officials situation (and personally I think it could be handled better) I agree whole heartedly with the sentiment expressed by Jacob Black with regards to V8SA. The broken record negativity of a few on here to see bad in everything associated with Supercars in spite of its long term continued financial and popularity success is ridiculous. Perhaps you could pass on your special advice to a couple of the dopes on here, to STFU...

But please have a nice day as this is not personal, is it...

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by bazil

As a Flag waiver, you are participant in the sport, because you want to.

Sorry mate, never been a "real" flag waver, oh yes I have sorry, when I was the bloke on gantry starting (with a red light on, then off) and finishing races with a chequered flag and showing the occasional meatball, yellow and black.

And I still maintain you won't find too many 'officials' on here who have too much good to say about the V8 circus, and these are people who are close to the inner sanctum of the V8's

But it is OK, you keep listening to Tony and not the 'real' people on the ground trying to make it work so that he looks good.

[XR8Chic]

Originally Posted by Jeff 8

I heard maybe Superbikes again.

Jeff

Nope.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

jesus bloody christ, what a bunch of self important bloody whingebags. get over yourselves, seriously, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people, who would jump a t the chance to be part of this particular show. just cause you've sat on a flag mound for 20 years (admirable as that is) doesn't mean you;re the be all and end all of aus motorsport. this forum has more whiney *****es than any ive seen.
seriously you lot, grow the **** up.

Nice comments those, if it was so easy and such a great job why aren't people jumping at the chance to do that job already. We actively try to recruit new officials and in the current economic & Gen Y ME state we are in it's not that easy to get people interested and trained up. They usually disappear after one or two race meetings when they work out it's not as romantic as it looks from the other side of the fence (or the first time it rains and they cant hide inside)

Bludvl is one of a handful of so called Gen Y's to join us trackside in the past few years and talking to him his peers just aren't interested in this type of volunteering despite him trying to drag a few along for a look.

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

I was pms-ing

Interesting problem for someone called Jacob

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

I seriously doubt that there will be any issues with officials on the day, hell, they'll probably outnumber the crowd!

Well I think you will find there will be a problem. Yes the usual V8 specialists (those couple of time a year officials who only turn up to V8 or F1 events) will show up at PI but the majority would rather go to Sandown.


I remember the situation at a high profile event many years ago where a bunch of "Professionals" where brought in (as volunteers) for an event and they all disappeared 2 hours prior to the end of the day so they could go to their paid night shift


Unfortunately Jacob many of us at the bottom of the motorsport food chain have been at the end of the line when it comes to treatment by the upper end of the sport and when we get a rare chance we kick back (& hard).

If you look back over the years on this forum you'll see various issues discussed from the dumbing down of the Yellow Flag rules which expose those of us trackside to all sort of legal implications if a serious incident occurs to the telling us when to wave the blue flag all of which effectively ties behind our backs, all this makes our job harder and has put several people off motorsport officiating completely.

The vast majority of us don't get a free junket to the Singapore F1GP instead we spend our free weekends at all sort of events from V8's down to club sprints at Winton or PI.

[bazil]

Originally Posted by Big_Trev

And I still maintain you won't find too many 'officials' on here who have too much good to say about the V8 circus, and these are people who are close to the inner sanctum of the V8's

close to the inner sanctum?? What the hell is that Your not having a bout of the "I am specials" are you...

But it is OK, you keep listening to Tony and not the 'real' people on the ground trying to make it work so that he looks good.

Thank you for allowing me the privilege. These “real people” you refer to, they must be above the average competitor/racers (all classes and levels) team owners, event management, sponsors, media, promoters, officials and punters that I speak or have spoken too? Do you have a special handshake or secret password to get into the inner sanctum...

C'mon Trev, lifes not that serious.

[Rachel Richards]

Originally Posted by PVDA

I remember the situation at a high profile event many years ago where a bunch of "Professionals" where brought in (as volunteers) for an event and they all disappeared 2 hours prior to the end of the day so they could go to their paid night shift
.

What about when a certain diminutive Victorian promoter/circuit owner thought he could save money on hiring the Fire Marshalls.

He (allegedly) cut a deal with a fire extinguisher supplier, (Graviner I believe they were called at the time) to hire fire extinguishers from them, and as a bonus they would bring their staff to the track to "man the trackside points"

All was going along swimmingly, as the Graviner staff arrived on the Saturday morning, excited at being part of the race event.

They went out onto their points, only to find the fun disappear at a very rapid rate, when those fast, noisy cars began driving around the track.

Come midday, all the staff were complaining about it being too dangerous for them to be out there, let alone to have to actually go to a crash or a burning car....

Needless to say, some eleventh hour phone calls were made to the local Fire & Rescue squad that evening, with them coming to the rescue (pun very much intended) to allow racing to happen on the Sunday.


Now whilst this event is ancient history, it proves what a number of posters have already said, trackside officials don’t just grow on trees. (or in warehouses of fire extinguisher companies either)

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Bludvl is one of a handful of so called Gen Y's to join us trackside in the past few years and talking to him his peers just aren't interested in this type of volunteering despite him trying to drag a few along for a look.

Very true PVDA. I have taken 3 mates to race meetings, and not one of them have been back again, and there are numerous mates who wont even entertain the idea in the first place...

Jacob, how about you come spend a couple of weekends out on the bank with us, and talk to the officials who are there meeting in, meeting out, and see WHY all the officials on here have jaded views of V8SCs. PM me, and I'll even organise it for you.

[Jacob Black]

Originally Posted by bludvl_x19

Jacob, how about you come spend a couple of weekends out on the bank with us, and talk to the officials who are there meeting in, meeting out, and see WHY all the officials on here have jaded views of V8SCs. PM me, and I'll even organise it for you.

I can't unfortunately, I'll be working. Besides, I've already got it, officials are mistreated/under appreciated by V8SA, and V8SA continues to show a lack of foresight and tact when dealing with officials. I hear you, I really do.

But this is not about how good a job officials do, its about people on here who can't say a single positive thing, who's first response is always to slam V8SA and everything they do.

Anyone with a brain knows there are flaws, here's some news for you all... every single organisation in the world, and every other sporting association in australia has flaws and issues, but people on here are more than a bit sensationalist with their moaning. Fact is, when CAMS did it all, they whinged, every time an organisation has been in charge of the sport/show people whinged about something.

Hell, GTR even managed to find a way to moan about the cameras on the Kelly car!

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

I can't unfortunately, I'll be working. Besides, I've already got it, officials are mistreated/under appreciated by V8SA, and V8SA continues to show a lack of foresight and tact when dealing with officials. I hear you, I really do.

Well, that rules you out in even being entitled to an opinion in this forum in my book. Even us useless drivers have to do a minimum 8 hour stint on the flags to gain a competition license.

Once out in the field with a couple of old salt volunteers who give up their weekends for my chosen sport, rain, hail or scalding sun, and maintaining a strict professional code so as to ensure the safety of my racing brethren, IMO there isn't enough we can do for them.

And from my experience (I have well and truly exceeded the minimum 8 hour requirement), most of these volunteers don't expect much other than to be recognised occasionally for their efforts, told they're doing a good job by someone other than another volunteer and treated with basic human respect.

So if there are a few people on this forum who unload out of years of frustration and disrespect from V8SA and other promoters, then so be it, thats a democracy.
If you want to be an apologist for V8SA, boy, you're in the wrong place.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Rachel Richards

What about when a certain diminutive Victorian promoter/circuit owner thought he could save money on hiring the Fire Marshalls.

That would make an interesting story to find out some more details one day but not the one in my example

[bludvl_x19]

Originally Posted by Jacob Black

I can't unfortunately, I'll be working. Besides, I've already got it, officials are mistreated/under appreciated by V8SA, and V8SA continues to show a lack of foresight and tact when dealing with officials. I hear you, I really do.

But this is not about how good a job officials do, its about people on here who can't say a single positive thing, who's first response is always to slam V8SA and everything they do.

Anyone with a brain knows there are flaws, here's some news for you all... every single organisation in the world, and every other sporting association in australia has flaws and issues, but people on here are more than a bit sensationalist with their moaning. Fact is, when CAMS did it all, they whinged, every time an organisation has been in charge of the sport/show people whinged about something.

Hell, GTR even managed to find a way to moan about the cameras on the Kelly car!

Well it is because of our experiences as officials, that some of us have such strong views on the subject of VESA. Some experiences are just so bad, that you cant be positive, you can only see the bad things.

[vicau]

Yes saloon cars are on as support cat. So more Ford \ Holden Having been on as a support before at other events it shocking the way we are treating even to the extent that we have even had races pulled.

[atky]

I'm not all that knowledgeable on the subject (Marshals) But for my 2 cents worth. V8SC is not a charity, they make money, they pay staff, they pay grid girls why would you volunteer a skill for free.
I'm over profit making operations wanting free labour and yes I know flagies do it case they love it but would Tony do it for nothing even if he loved it?

[Woolley]

I'm not upset, but I think we may have wandered a little way off topic here, and I can't tell anyone off because I may have contributed to that, so back to the discussion, please.

[applecart]

Originally Posted by applecart

Winton
-Super TT
-BMW E30
-Porsche 944
-Futureracers
-HQ Holdens
-Under 2L Sports Sedans
Sandown
-Obviously historics are on at Sandown, which includes Group N & Biante
Whats left for Phillip Island
-Assuming Mini's, FF, etc are out?
-Utes?
-GT Champ?
-Improved Prod?
-Saloon Cars?
-MG's?
-F3?
-Formula Vee?
-GT3?
-Aussie Racers?
-Perhaps Glenn Ridge will push his "Targa Class" again?

At least some of our questions have been answered now, supports have been announced

[Trevor]

Thanks Bazil, now we can get back to "playing the ball"

[Woolley]

Now all the personal stuff is removed perhaps we can get back to the topic. A gentle hint didn't work, if deleting stuff doesn't then we can move up a level. However, I trust all the spleen venting is now over. In other words, enough, guys. We spend too much time in here discussing each other. If you want to do that, go join a dating site.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Now all the personal stuff is removed perhaps we can get back to the topic. A gentle hint didn't work, if deleting stuff doesn't then we can move up a level. However, I trust all the spleen venting is now over. In other words, enough, guys. We spend too much time in here discussing each other. If you want to do that, go join a dating site.

Please see my PM about this very issue - Thanks Woolley.