A question for IRL fans only!

trow · 9 Nov 2002, 01:50 (Ref:424935)

Why are the CART Champion Team Owners of the last 8 years leaving for the IRL? Can anyone remember the last American CART champion? Can anyone remember the last American IRL Champion? Pfffft! Why did Fed-Ex leave with three years remaining on its contract? Why is Pat Patrick now saying in the "Oregonian" that if CART wouldn't have been so "Condescending before the split... and worked more with TG" there may of never been a split? Why is the majority of the media, who in the beginning were against the IRL, now totally on Tony George's and the IRL's side? Why does CART now only have ONE active CART champion left, while the IRL has all the rest?

f1manoz · 9 Nov 2002, 03:53 (Ref:424964)

Why only a question for IRL fans?

marcus · 9 Nov 2002, 10:56 (Ref:425031)

trow , i sincerly hope this isnt the start of something bad ???

in fact I think you have raised some interesting points , but frankly this is the IRL forum , and the CART series does not really need to be discussed as it has its own forum.

but I will keep this thread open for now and see how it goes.

camcartfan · 9 Nov 2002, 10:57 (Ref:425032)

Sponsorship. It's not quality of the series'. It's money. Greenbacks. Dough. It has nothing to do with the product.

Jordi · 9 Nov 2002, 11:40 (Ref:425051)

Quote:

Originally posted by trow
Why are the CART Champion Team Owners of the last 8 years leaving for the IRL?

Of course, in the last eight years there have been only three different champion owners (because Newman-Haas is still in CART). Ganassi, Penske and Green. But surely, the team Green that was champion with Jacques Villeneuve is not the same as the one that is leaving now. Beginning with the owner.

Quote:

Can anyone remember the last American CART champion? Can anyone remember the last American IRL Champion?

1996: Jimmy Vasser. 2002: Sam Hornish Jr.

Quote:

Pfffft!

hey, don't fart!

Quote:

Why did Fed-Ex leave with three years remaining on its contract?

Probably asking what happened with Pep Boys or Northern Light would be more related to this forum.

Quote:

Why is Pat Patrick now saying in the "Oregonian" that if CART wouldn't have been so "Condescending before the split... and worked more with TG" there may of never been a split?

Because it's probably true. Patrick acknowledges that CART probably had its part in the split, but will TG recognize that he did a lot of damage in these 6 years to American open-wheel racing? I don't think so.

Quote:

Why is the majority of the media, who in the beginning were against the IRL, now totally on Tony George's and the IRL's side?

They probably follow the money. But I'm not a journo, so I don't know.

Quote:

Why does CART now only have ONE active CART champion left, while the IRL has all the rest?

"All the rest" is ONLY one more. And he was champion 11 years ago... But CART could have another, if Alex hadn't suffered the accident at Lausitz.

But it's a vicious circle. Stewart is IRL champion and now he's gonna be a NASCAR champion. Brack is IRL champion an has raced in CART and may be going to NASCAR.
If you look at it, only F1 hasn't got champions elsewhere.

Oh dude, I'm a CART fan and was able to answer the topic, I must be a superman or something!

marcus · 9 Nov 2002, 11:46 (Ref:425054)

Jordi · 9 Nov 2002, 11:47 (Ref:425056)

yo, I've been civilized... let's see if it continues this way!

Tailwind · 10 Nov 2002, 03:02 (Ref:425467)

Jordi, I think your points are excellent. The only item I would add to that is Indy itself. Attendance it the Indy 500 has declined a little over the past few years. However, in the U. S. it is still the biggest named open wheel race in the country. Most of us here on the forums support our series, weather it be IRL or CART, all year long. The casual open wheel race fan may only tune into one race a year. They don’t understand the issues we have with the two series and why we feel they way we do about what the best racing is. To the casual fan, the race to watch is the Indy 500. This may be the same as the many people that only watch one football (US) game a year; the superbowl. I can understand sponsors wanting a piece of that market. Especially if it is a US based company with that is primarily selling to the US market.

Jordi · 10 Nov 2002, 12:33 (Ref:425690)

What should be achieved by CART more than by the IRL is get the casual fan into being a superfan, so this fan doesn't only watch the Indy 500..

marcus · 10 Nov 2002, 22:25 (Ref:425962)

I would feel that to get the casual watcher to become a "superfan" would be the idea of both series in fact just about every series in the world would want this.

and I certainly think tailwind has made a very good point, Indy is the highlight of the year for openwheelers in the US so of course the sponsors want a piece of it in fact I reckon they want every piece of it

Jordi · 10 Nov 2002, 23:53 (Ref:426032)

My problem is that it's a very good point. Sponsors only seem to care for Indy...

macdaddy · 11 Nov 2002, 06:37 (Ref:426166)

Great post, Tailwind. Very black-and-white.

trow · 11 Nov 2002, 16:25 (Ref:426468)

Question: Why are the CART Champion Team Owners of the last 8 years leaving for the IRL?

Answer:

Quote:

jordi: Of course, in the last eight years there have been only three different champion owners (because Newman-Haas is still in CART). Ganassi, Penske and Green. But surely, the team Green that was champion with Jacques Villeneuve is not the same as the one that is leaving now. Beginning with the owner.

This is a classic spin! AGR isn't as good as Team Green? Ok.

Question: Can anyone remember the last American CART champion? Can anyone remember the last American IRL Champion?

Answer.

Quote:

jordi: 1996: Jimmy Vasser. 2002: Sam Hornish Jr.

Very good! In 2001 we had another American CHamp, and the year before that, and the year before that, etc ...

Question: Why did Fed-Ex leave with three years remaining on its contract?

Quote:

Jordi: Probably asking what happened with Pep Boys or Northern Light would be more related to this forum.

Spin! What's the matter, is it that tough sticking with the questions? It's all there in Black and White.

Question: Why is Pat Patrick now saying in the "Oregonian" that if CART wouldn't have been so "Condescending before the split... and worked more with TG" there may of never been a split?

Answer

Quote:

Because it's probably true. Patrick acknowledges that CART probably had its part in the split, but will TG recognize that he did a lot of damage in these 6 years to American open-wheel racing? I don't think so.

What does Tony have to apologize for? He tried to give input to CART for many many years and they wanted nothing to do with him. They gave him a non-voting seat on the BOD. A non-voting seat? Gimme a break! He knew the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was the reason for most of their fame. He knew that was the only chip on the table that he had a direct say on. He risked the business on the choice he made and now it has paid off huge. If CART dies because of it, sucks to be them!

Oh, and more spin jordi!

Question: Why is the majority of the media, who in the beginning were against the IRL, now totally on Tony George's and the IRL's side?

Answer

Quote:

jordi: They probably follow the money. But I'm not a journo, so I don't know.

Part of the reason is because Pook's camp is sending out propaganda to many racing newspapers, and they are picking up on his schemes. Many have already printed articles regarding his tactics, and as a result, many people in the racing media are starting to give the IRL a fair shake while giving Pook and Co. exactly what they deserve - nothing but bad press!

Question: Why does CART now only have ONE active CART champion left, while the IRL has all the rest?

Answer

Quote:

jordi: "All the rest" is ONLY one more. And he was champion 11 years ago... But CART could have another, if Alex hadn't suffered the accident at Lausitz.

But it's a vicious circle. Stewart is IRL champion and now he's gonna be a NASCAR champion. Brack is IRL champion an has raced in CART and may be going to NASCAR.
If you look at it, only F1 hasn't got champions elsewhere.

More spin.

Jordi · 11 Nov 2002, 18:16 (Ref:426529)

Quote:

This is a classic spin! AGR isn't as good as Team Green? Ok.

I NEVER said that. I only said that it's no longer owned by Barry Green (the same that was robbed by the Unnameable)

Quote:

Very good! In 2001 we had another American CHamp, and the year before that, and the year before that, etc ...

Who the hell cares? Not me, because if I needed racing champions from my country I probably wouldn't watch racing. Which leads me to the question: Why the IRL goes to Japan with so many American drivers and champions?

Quote:

Spin! What's the matter, is it that tough sticking with the questions? It's all there in Black and White.

No, no, no. Fed Ex leaves, but a week later CART signs a presenting sponsor, Bridgestone. Can you tell me which are the title and presenting sponsors of the IRL? And we are in the IRL forum...

Quote:

What does Tony have to apologize for? He tried to give input to CART for many many years and they wanted nothing to do with him. They gave him a non-voting seat on the BOD. A non-voting seat? Gimme a break! He knew the Indianapolis Motor Speedway was the reason for most of their fame. He knew that was the only chip on the table that he had a direct say on. He risked the business on the choice he made and now it has paid off huge. If CART dies because of it, sucks to be them!

True. It has paid off for him, the Unnameable, but I don't see it paying off at the stands of Fontana, for example...

Quote:

Part of the reason is because Pook's camp is sending out propaganda to many racing newspapers, and they are picking up on his schemes. Many have already printed articles regarding his tactics, and as a result, many people in the racing media are starting to give the IRL a fair shake while

??? Surely you must know a lot more about the press and everything...

Quote:

giving Pook and Co. exactly what they deserve - nothing but bad press!

I may dislike the IRL but you do hate CART and Pook..

Quote:

More spin.

Yeah spin. Truth is, who cares about the number of champions in each series? And more so when there only ONE more??

trow · 11 Nov 2002, 18:32 (Ref:426540)

Quote:

jordi: Fed Ex leaves, but a week later CART signs a presenting sponsor, Bridgestone. Can you tell me which are the title and presenting sponsors of the IRL? And we are in the IRL forum...

This is all in the eye of the beholder jordi. While you are giddy about CART's "Presenting sponsor", tell me sir, who is NASCAR's & Formula 1's Presenting Sponsors??? To come to think about it it seems the best racing series' don't rely on this type of sponsorship money; it's the only way a series thats strapped can get extra money. I'm sure if the IRL wanted to give out the naming rights of the league like CART is doing there are more than a couple who would jump all over it. Besides getting a little money for CART; what exactly special is Bridgestone going to do for them? They already benefit from free sets of tires. Are they going to start building Chassis and Engines with Turbos for them and get a new TV contract and blah blah blah? No they aren't, their going to give them tires and collect what little sponsorship exposure they'll get from the default awarding of the "presenting Sponsorship" of CART. WoooHooo! Drink's are on me!!!

Question jordi: Why is the first race in Japan named the Bridgestone 300?

Jordi · 11 Nov 2002, 22:04 (Ref:426650)

I see you only quoted me once this time. What about the other ones?

And, why should I know why the Motegi race is the Bridgestone Indy Japan 300? I'd suppose that as in 2002 Bridgestone sponsored the race, they would continue doing it.

Actually Bridgestone/Firestone probably support both series and do not see it as war, like you and me do.

trow · 12 Nov 2002, 01:23 (Ref:426776)

Quote:

jordi: Actually Bridgestone/Firestone probably support both series and do not see it as war, like you and me do.

jordi, I don't see it as war. The war is over -- IRL won!

Tailwind · 12 Nov 2002, 04:43 (Ref:426831)

Quote:

This is all in the eye of the beholder jordi. While you are giddy about CART's "Presenting sponsor", tell me sir, who is NASCAR's & Formula 1's Presenting Sponsors??? To come to think about it it seems the best racing series' don't rely on this type of sponsorship money

What??

How about NASCAR's "Winston Cup Series" or the "Craftsman Truck Series" or the "Busch Series" or maybe "Toyota/Atlantic" or even the "Infiniti Pro Series", then there is the "Barber Dodge Pro Series."

This is America, if you're racing something, we'll figure out a way to put a sponser on it.

macdaddy · 12 Nov 2002, 06:09 (Ref:426848)

"NASCAR has no presenting sponsors." Guess you didn't put alot of thought into that post. Other series sponsors might include Pep Boys or Northern Lights.

trow · 12 Nov 2002, 13:20 (Ref:427032)

I stand corrected: NASCAR Winston Cup. How about Formula 1? Let's go 2 for 2!

BootsOntheSide · 12 Nov 2002, 15:43 (Ref:427104)

Formula 1 isn't sponsored in itself, we don't do things that way in Europe. A sport is supposed to be about competition, achievement and effort, not money or corporate promotion (which, unfortunately, with 7 major car companies involved, F1 is becoming. IRL will just be the manefestation of the Honda V Toyota war. CART can concentrate on setting up close racing, something it has done pretty well over 23 years)

botsquad · 12 Nov 2002, 16:26 (Ref:427122)

Quote:

Originally posted by trow
I stand corrected: NASCAR Winston Cup. How about Formula 1? Let's go 2 for 2!

f1...ok how about.

The SAP United States Grand Prix

Jordi · 12 Nov 2002, 17:40 (Ref:427158)

But there are sponsors for each race, not for the series as a whole. F1 is just not the name of an association like NASCAR, CART, IRL, ALMS, NHRA...

Jordi · 12 Nov 2002, 17:42 (Ref:427163)

Quote:

Originally posted by trow
jordi, I don't see it as war. The war is over -- IRL won!

What did the IRL win then if you don't see it as a war?

trow · 12 Nov 2002, 23:16 (Ref:427388)

Quote:

botsquad:f1...ok how about. The SAP United States Grand Prix

I'm afraid one race won't do it! Good try though!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
A question for the Ferrari fans!	Mr V	Formula One	60	7 Jun 2003 21:37
Question for XR fans/racers in the English series	Nick Sanderson	National & Club Racing	6	26 Oct 2001 14:42
A Question for ASCAR fans.	Lee	NASCAR & Stock Car Racing	15	11 Feb 2001 17:53
Gran Turismo 2 fans? World Rally fans?	Jared	Virtual Racers	1	1 Aug 2000 19:50