Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28 Jun 2002, 19:43 (Ref:323872)   #1
Yoong Montoya
Veteran
 
Yoong Montoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,421
Yoong Montoya should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Can a driving style cause mechanical failures nowadays?

I don't think so. They now have rev limiters and automatic gearboxes, so I would say all mechanical failures are caused by bad luck. The only exception I can think of is when the driver had a touch with another car before his car failed, as he probably would have damaged it to the extent that it broke down a few laps later (e.g M Schumacher and Wurz at Monaco 1998).

Today's cars are designed to be driven to the limit. If they brake down that's just bad luck. I just can't see how a driver can cause the car to break down due to his driving style these days.

What do you think?
Yoong Montoya is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jun 2002, 20:27 (Ref:323892)   #2
freud
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location:
Planet Earth
Posts: 2,156
freud has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I think Driving 'can' cause problems in areas such as brakes, gearbox and tyre wear. If we analyze the driving syles of different drivers, TGF, JPM and DC would have more tyre wear problems than other drivers. Similarly JPM is very hard on his brakes which might lead to brake problems.
freud is offline  
__________________
Stop the fr*** rule changes, Moseley!
Quote
Old 28 Jun 2002, 20:37 (Ref:323900)   #3
neilap
Veteran
 
neilap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Jamaica
21212
Posts: 2,986
neilap should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Also some drivers still do the downshifts manually. However, brakes and tires seem to be the area where drivers can do the most of their damage now.
neilap is offline  
__________________
Eventually we learn
Quote
Old 28 Jun 2002, 20:46 (Ref:323909)   #4
Mr V
Veteran
 
Mr V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
The city of bridges (one day!)
Posts: 13,211
Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!
The reason for JPM's engine failure at Canada was down to the fact that his engine was set to maximum engine braking apparently.
Mr V is offline  
__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
Quote
Old 28 Jun 2002, 20:47 (Ref:323911)   #5
Sato san
Veteran
 
Sato san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,602
Sato san should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSato san should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Gearboxes can still be broken by using too much kerbs or banging the car to much across kebing etc , so i would say that a driving style could still force a mechanical failure . But no where near the amount that it would years ago.
Sato san is offline  
__________________
MOTOR RACING ...The general idea is that the driver behind uses all his Skills, Tricks and Courage to try and overtake the guy ( or Girl ) in front !
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 05:14 (Ref:324075)   #6
Gt_R
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location:
Singapore
Posts: 5,917
Gt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGt_R should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I agree that most of the "damages" done to the car due to the driving style is mostly with tires, brakes, gearbox...maybe even engine.

Surely, it is not good for the brakes and tyres when Ralf keeps locking it up in Nurburgring? But with regards to engines and other mechanicals, driving style has lesser effects on them than in the past... but how hard you push it and how the engineers have set it would determine how easy it would break.

For example, to remain competitive, BMW can tune their engine to a higher level, allowing JPM/Ralf to keep impressive performance...however, due to that, the higher limit could more easily cause the engine to fail. With JPM having a slightly more aggressive style than Ralf, it won't help matters. However, before we blame BMW for making a unreliable package...think...if BMW wants reliability at a race, they would have to sacrifice power...and if that is the case, would JPM/Ralf be as impressive?

The limits set and the driving styles can affect mechanical and engine reliability... the best explanation would be why teams run qualifying and race engines...
Gt_R is offline  
__________________
Alonso: "McLaren and Williams are also great racing teams, but Ferrari is the biggest one that you can go to."
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 05:19 (Ref:324078)   #7
f1manoz
Veteran
 
f1manoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Australia
Lincolnshire, UK
Posts: 7,294
f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Brakes would certainly be the most vulnerable part of the car nowadays, IMO.
f1manoz is offline  
__________________
Sunderland Til I Die!
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 05:30 (Ref:324084)   #8
Jukebox
Veteran
 
Jukebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Malaysia
KL
Posts: 2,212
Jukebox should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Re: Can a driving style cause mechanical failures nowadays?

The engines are built to withstand being driven to the limit for a certain number of mileage.

All the drivers have to is to take care of their tyres and the brakes too play a major part whereby it's dangerous to brake hard when the tyres are still cold (example - after safety car period). That's why tyre warmers are crucial before the start of any race.

Quote:
Sato san
Gearboxes can still be broken by using too much kerbs or banging the car to much across kebing etc ,.
I don agree with you cause F1 cars have this underboard planks that is imposed bt the FIA to be the lowest point of contact. The planks must not wear off after the race or the car will be disqualified. Teams uses packers to control the ride height in order to take care of the planks.
Jukebox is offline  
__________________
more hors3epower
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 05:36 (Ref:324088)   #9
steve nielsen
Veteran
 
steve nielsen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Netherlands
Rotterdam- Holland
Posts: 4,413
steve nielsen should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
No, a gearbox or engine can't fail because of the drivers, there is just to much electronic equipment on board to prevent that.
steve nielsen is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 05:47 (Ref:324095)   #10
ttc
Racer
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location:
AMK, Singapore
Posts: 369
ttc should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by steve nielsen
No, a gearbox or engine can't fail because of the drivers, there is just to much electronic equipment on board to prevent that.
That's not true.

The electronics may prevent over-revving the engine, or damaging the gearbox due to bad gear shifts, but they do not prevent OVERWORKING of the gearbox nor overheating of the engine.

Just remember that design specs does not automatically equate actual working specs.

That is why driving styles do play a part, albeit an increasingly minor part, in mechanical failures.
ttc is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 10:54 (Ref:324168)   #11
Mr V
Veteran
 
Mr V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
The city of bridges (one day!)
Posts: 13,211
Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally posted by Sato san
Gearboxes can still be broken by using too much kerbs or banging the car to much across kebing etc , so i would say that a driving style could still force a mechanical failure . But no where near the amount that it would years ago.
Quote:
Originally posted by Jukebox

I don agree with you cause F1 cars have this underboard planks that is imposed bt the FIA to be the lowest point of contact.
I think Juke, the point Sato San is trying to make is the banging of wheels over the kerbs sending "shock waves" (for want of a better description) through the driveshaftsto the gearbox, thus, causing failure.
Mr V is offline  
__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 11:53 (Ref:324185)   #12
Jack racer
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location:
New Zealand
Posts: 353
Jack racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Correct it can cause shock loading of parts such as wheel bearings and in bad cases the gearbox.
Jack racer is offline  
__________________
Life is short, it's better to try and fail than not try at all.
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 14:12 (Ref:324233)   #13
z2252314
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Australia
Posts: 493
z2252314 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I have a feeling that when Todt, or any other team boss for that matter, orders their drivers to slow down as much as possible at the end of the race, it is due to more than just concerns for brakes or tyres. While there may be rev limiters, common sense tells you, that driving the car below that limit will put less strain on the engine. A driver may not be able to over rev an engine these days, but keeping off the limit, when driving with a safe lead, undoubtedly reduces the chance of an engine failure.
z2252314 is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 19:40 (Ref:324314)   #14
Alan Jones
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location:
Central Coast
Posts: 2,012
Alan Jones should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
YES!!

Ralf's driving style definitely led to a mechanical failure in Australia
Attached Images
 
Alan Jones is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 21:41 (Ref:324354)   #15
Sato san
Veteran
 
Sato san's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,602
Sato san should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSato san should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by mr v


I think Juke, the point Sato San is trying to make is the banging of wheels over the kerbs sending "shock waves" (for want of a better description) through the driveshaftsto the gearbox, thus, causing failure.

Thanks , yes , that was exactly the point i was trying to make.
Sato san is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 22:05 (Ref:324368)   #16
Valve Bounce
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Australia
Home :)
Posts: 7,491
Valve Bounce has been held in scrutiny for further testing
Why don't we refer this matter to Ralf?

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]
Valve Bounce is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 22:23 (Ref:324380)   #17
bart_jacobs
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location:
almost next to team astromega workshop
Posts: 367
bart_jacobs should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I remeber that Jarno Trulli was second at the monaco GP a couple of years ago with the Jordan,he had a gearbox faillure and they said that that happend because of his driving style
bart_jacobs is offline  
__________________
The dark side clouds everything...
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 23:04 (Ref:324391)   #18
Usa Pilot
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 8
Usa Pilot should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Nelson Piquet said this is not possible. The moderns cars are unbreakable.
Usa Pilot is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Jun 2002, 23:45 (Ref:324397)   #19
Mr V
Veteran
 
Mr V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
The city of bridges (one day!)
Posts: 13,211
Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!
Quote:
Originally posted by Usa Pilot
Nelson Piquet said this is not possible. The moderns cars are unbreakable.
Easy for Nelson to say, he doesn't drive them, and i don't think Thomas (his son) would have been testing the Jaguar that hard that he would break it, he wanted to make an impression after all!
Mr V is offline  
__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
Quote
Old 30 Jun 2002, 02:24 (Ref:324433)   #20
slicktoast
Veteran
 
slicktoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location:
Axtel,Oh,USA
Posts: 731
slicktoast should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Nah... just watch A. Yoong!
slicktoast is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2002, 09:19 (Ref:324970)   #21
Glen
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,598
Glen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridGlen should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It's a gross oversimplification to suggest that engine failures cannot occur these days, except for bad luck. Sure, the engine is limited for revs - but that is the absolute maximum limit which should theoretically get you to the end of the race and no further. A margin for error is what will get you through more often, and that's what Ferrari are up to when they run slow in the closing laps.

Two examples - using too much traction control and engine braking both stress the engine a lot more than being 1% slower and turning these settings down a notch. When the chassis is well sorted both of these factors can be reduced, thus helping to give the engine a little more margin. The whole package saves the engine - last Ferrari engine failure? Indy last year I think. Conversely, don't just blame BMW when Montoya blows up - also blame the whole package.

Last edited by Glen; 1 Jul 2002 at 09:20.
Glen is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Jul 2002, 10:30 (Ref:325014)   #22
Total-F1
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location:
England
Posts: 652
Total-F1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Last Ferrari engine failure? Don't be silly. Race warm up in Canada, Michael blew up on the main straight!
Total-F1 is offline  
__________________
It's only F1 if it's TotalF1, Says Samuel
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2002, 02:05 (Ref:325553)   #23
Jukebox
Veteran
 
Jukebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Malaysia
KL
Posts: 2,212
Jukebox should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally posted by mr v
I think Juke, the point Sato San is trying to make is the banging of wheels over the kerbs sending "shock waves" (for want of a better description) through the driveshaftsto the gearbox, thus, causing failure.
You have to be kidding right...shock waves? If the car jumps off the kerb onto the grass, then there's a possibilty because of soft springs & torsion bars setups or if the dampers are damaged.
Jukebox is offline  
__________________
more hors3epower
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2002, 07:37 (Ref:325640)   #24
Mr V
Veteran
 
Mr V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
The city of bridges (one day!)
Posts: 13,211
Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!Mr V has a real shot at the championship!
I'm on about the "shock waves" going through the suspension, driveshafts etc when the wheel hits a kerb not the shock of a car bouncing off and hitting the grass!
Mr V is offline  
__________________
That's so frickin uncool man!
Quote
Old 2 Jul 2002, 07:58 (Ref:325648)   #25
M Webber
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location:
st andrews Australia
Posts: 20
M Webber should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Yes 100% YES just ask car killer JPM . He can out drive anything EVEN THE CAR .LOL LOL
M Webber is offline  
__________________
As in all sports Aussie's will crush them in F1 as well
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Traffic for the BGP nowadays. Adam43 Trackside 10 5 Jul 2005 08:44
Lack of Mechanical Failures Spudgun Formula One 14 11 Mar 2003 18:59
Best GP circuit (nowadays) Adam43 Formula One 68 5 Mar 2003 00:58
Is Luca Badoer's driving style similar to Michael Schumacher's? Yoong Montoya Formula One 1 10 Jun 2002 21:53
Montoya's driving style Sodemo Formula One 13 15 Jun 2001 21:59


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:00.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.