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Old 3 May 2005, 07:51 (Ref:1291809)   #1
Andrew Palmer
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Treating Oil on a wet Track? (merged with 'Oil on the track')

Having yesterday been at Donnington on Post 4. The Fact are:

Second from last race cars set off on the green flag lap a Jaguar throws a rod through the engine block at Post 1 drives around to Post 6 on the outside line. Oil now laying on top of a wet track in places. Circuit staff turn out with a pressure washer and detergent to treat the oil. We Marshals treated the dry sections of track in the normal way. No problem at the start of the race slight traction problems for the second drives (I forgot to say it was a two drive race).

Last race no drives told about the oil at Redgate Gravel Trap becoming a car park with four cars including one roller (ended back on wheels).

Walking on the washed section of track at the end of the day was like walking on ice.

So how do you treat oil on a wet track?
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Old 3 May 2005, 07:56 (Ref:1291813)   #2
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Sounds like they were using either too much detergent or not enough!!!!
It,s always a do you or don,t you thing treating a wet track but i wont use cement or the equivalent on a wet track cos you can make it worse. the pressure washer idea sounds good but you,ve got to get it right.
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Old 3 May 2005, 08:10 (Ref:1291823)   #3
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For bikes we use washing up liquid, a pressure washer and a hell of a lot of elbow grease - the trick is to ensure that the track is brushed into extinction!

Having said that, I think it also depends on the drainage on the track. Mondello slopes a fair bit, so we can usually persuade it to run into the gutters.

The best option has to be the oil "nappies" which pretty much work in all conditions - but they're expensive and no-one wants to use them
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Old 3 May 2005, 11:30 (Ref:1291932)   #4
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AFFF works very well!
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Old 3 May 2005, 18:21 (Ref:1292222)   #5
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Oil Slicks

I was at Donington on monday, and it started raining. After it rained, one of the cars decided to drop oil around redgate, at least a foot wide in some places. As there was water on the track it was impossible to dress the oil with cement, but was too dangerous to race on so the circuit staff jet washed it with some detergent. It ended up being like a skating rink, the drivers in the 1st race after the spill were informed of the slippy track and adjusted there racing lines, the next set of drivers were not told so we there were about 5 cars in the gravel.
Any reccomendations on dressing oil in the wet as jet washing is clearly not the answer
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Old 3 May 2005, 18:33 (Ref:1292236)   #6
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Hepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68626

a thread has already been started!
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Old 3 May 2005, 18:34 (Ref:1292239)   #7
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See:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68626
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Old 3 May 2005, 18:35 (Ref:1292242)   #8
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http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68626

a thread has already been started!
...beat me to it.....just!
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Old 3 May 2005, 18:39 (Ref:1292250)   #9
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Poor Jinx, can not read or remember what was said 24 hours ago. To quote you "if some one started a thread I'll add to it". So I started it.




Will you be at Cadwell on Sunday?

Watch out trye wall
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Old 3 May 2005, 20:17 (Ref:1292303)   #10
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I've slept since yesterday, and then couldn't find anything sorry
Don't know about cadwell at the minute
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Old 3 May 2005, 20:21 (Ref:1292308)   #11
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Have heard that Rockingham have some sort of special saw dust to mop up oil spills, does anyone know anything about that and would that work in the rain?
The track was dangerous at dono, the drivers kept insisting that there was still oil on the track a lot wider than the original slick
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Old 3 May 2005, 21:50 (Ref:1292406)   #12
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Originally Posted by Jinx
Have heard that Rockingham have some sort of special saw dust to mop up oil spills, does anyone know anything about that and would that work in the rain?
The track was dangerous at dono, the drivers kept insisting that there was still oil on the track a lot wider than the original slick
Speaking professionally as a geologist, vermiculite (type of clay) should work very well in this situation. As a driver, all I can say (race before that - Oldies But Goldies) it was flippin slippy when it rained - always is at Donington - I suspect that the rain brings down suspended AvGas from the takeoffs at East Midlands - I think it also brings it out of the tarmac - Mcleans was particularly bad this time (you can guess that I spun there ;-).

Chris
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Old 3 May 2005, 21:57 (Ref:1292416)   #13
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Merged threads together now.
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Old 4 May 2005, 06:42 (Ref:1292573)   #14
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simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I was in the race when the clouds opened and in the race the Etype deposited its guts. I got it wrong both times as I was first driver in the rain race (so got the full brunt of it) and second driver in the other race
in the rain it was quite strange Redgate and Old Hairpin were undriveable (I spun into the gravel at Redgate but fortunately managed to back it out) but up the other end of the track it wasnt too bad (unlike SRS qualys onthe Sunday morning when it was deeply unpleasant all the way round! breaking up hill and locking up is a novel experience!!)
during the SS race I took over for the second half and the track was becoming more scary by the lap! Redgate braking zone was awful and the chicane was pretty nasty but the rest wasnt too bad. Apart from the slight mishap on the pace car on sundays SRS race as a driver I thought it was very well marshalled all weekend - thanks!
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Old 4 May 2005, 08:21 (Ref:1292630)   #15
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Originally Posted by Jinx
Have heard that Rockingham have some sort of special saw dust to mop up oil spills, does anyone know anything about that and would that work in the rain?

Jinx I know about the Rockingham stuff it is proper oil dry as used in industry. I had forgotten about Rockingham using this stuff. Now if my memory is correct they used to keep two grades of oil dry, fine on all the post and coarse in the clean up vehicles. There used to be oil dry mats as well and a chemical degreaser. All these where a requirement for the Indy cars.

The main different between this type of oil treatment and our normal plaster or cement is you only apply a little of the oil dry leave it to work for a short time then sweep it up and shovel it away for disposal. As for use in the wet I know some even soak up water and other chemicals.

Now to show you why all the knowledge we use the same stuff at work. The down sides are cost, training and disposal.
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Old 4 May 2005, 20:52 (Ref:1293191)   #16
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YOu are correct - Rockingham did (and I assume, still do) have fine and coarse stuff. Not too sure how good it would be in the wet. it is a nightmare to use on a windy day as it is so fine it just blows away. Thinking back to being on a clean up crew at the first CART race, you chuck the stuff down like laying seed, dab it in with the brush, then use a leaf blower (like a hoover in reverse!) to blow it away.

IIRC, this stuff has a more common name - Fuller's Earth, or cat litter!
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Old 4 May 2005, 21:40 (Ref:1293223)   #17
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Sheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSheila M should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
When I was training as a Speed Clerk of the Course, I was unfortunate enough to be "in charge" (it was my last signature and I had to "run" the meeting) at a sprint when it rained whilst some Austin 7s were out on the track. (Austin 7s are notorious for leaking oil as you are probably all aware.) I had spotted a couple of them wiggling in the same spot and suspected that a previous vehicle had laid down a bit of oil. So I asked for a halt in the proceedings while I did a track inspection.

I reached the post where the very enthusiastic but terribly inexperienced marshals had reported an oil spill and leapt out of the course car in a very undignified and unladylike manner, screeching at the marshal clutching the cement bucket and brush "Don't even think about using that stuff").

"Too late", was the reply, "We've already dressed it".

Result - something resembling the Great Wall of China.

Fortunately, it was almost lunchtime, so I called a halt to the session, declared it to be a lunchbreak and got anyone and everyone out there in the rain, with buckets of water and brushes to clear away the resulting mess.

After a brief chat with the MSA Steward and the Clerk of the Course, I held a mandatory drivers briefing where they were all invited to walk the course to check on the conditions, the meeting continued and I got my final signature!
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Old 4 May 2005, 21:50 (Ref:1293233)   #18
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I remember one hill climb when we were mopping up burst adiator contents with sand. Then someone added cement while I wasn't looking...
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Old 5 May 2005, 07:06 (Ref:1293427)   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolley
I remember one hill climb when we were mopping up burst adiator contents with sand. Then someone added cement while I wasn't looking...
Ahhh so it was more of a resurface than a clean up? I've always felt that a bit of patio work (and maybe some decking) would look nice on most circuits......... By the way, if you can remember which marshals were responsible, will you send them over to do our back garden?
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Old 5 May 2005, 07:18 (Ref:1293437)   #20
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Originally Posted by SkyRedButton
YOu are correct - Rockingham did (and I assume, still do) have fine and coarse stuff. Not too sure how good it would be in the wet. it is a nightmare to use on a windy day as it is so fine it just blows away. Thinking back to being on a clean up crew at the first CART race, you chuck the stuff down like laying seed, dab it in with the brush, then use a leaf blower (like a hoover in reverse!) to blow it away.

IIRC, this stuff has a more common name - Fuller's Earth, or cat litter!
RMS still do use the course and fine - very effective stuff. On a windy day, you break your back getting low enough to get any on the right spot!

You were on the first cleanup crew at CART - me too! Great event!
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Old 6 May 2005, 12:55 (Ref:1294369)   #21
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Originally Posted by EvilPumpkin
Ahhh so it was more of a resurface than a clean up? I've always felt that a bit of patio work (and maybe some decking) would look nice on most circuits......... By the way, if you can remember which marshals were responsible, will you send them over to do our back garden?
Yes, I know exactly who they were! Did you know that anti-freeze makes a good plasticiser agent? That was something I learned that day.
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Old 6 May 2005, 22:51 (Ref:1294736)   #22
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At taupo N.Z. we use asort of a ground up bark substanse thats really good. soon as you put it on the tracks pretty much soaked up. amazing stuff.
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Old 9 May 2005, 16:55 (Ref:1296820)   #23
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For bikes we use washing up liquid, a pressure washer and a hell of a lot of elbow grease - the trick is to ensure that the track is brushed into extinction!
Those that were at Goodwood FOS a couple of years ago (SG included) will remember that we had a wide oil spill on line after the first corner. Liberal use of deteregent, exceedingly vigourous use of brooms to ensure that the oil was nuetralised then SG with the pressure washer and further sweeping to clear the emulsified oil worked a treat. It was time consuming but effective. There's no quick fix.
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Old 9 May 2005, 17:19 (Ref:1296845)   #24
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Hepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridHepatic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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There's no quick fix.
Except stopping the buggers dropping their guts in the first place!
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Old 9 May 2005, 17:40 (Ref:1296873)   #25
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Originally Posted by Chigley
Those that were at Goodwood FOS a couple of years ago (SG included) will remember that we had a wide oil spill on line after the first corner. Liberal use of deteregent, exceedingly vigourous use of brooms to ensure that the oil was nuetralised then SG with the pressure washer and further sweeping to clear the emulsified oil worked a treat. It was time consuming but effective. There's no quick fix.
You got any photographic proof? Didn't know you actually grafted at race meetings!
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