BTCC 2019 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[redshoes]

Tony Gilham has posted a picture of the workshop on Facebook. 4 BTCC cars clearly visible in unchanged livery, with the other car at the side

[Pickles]

The 'extra' car pictured is another road going replica, as you can see it uses the earlier type bodykit

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Tony Gilham has posted a picture of the workshop on Facebook. 4 BTCC cars clearly visible in unchanged livery, with the other car at the side

Ah nice one. Was fairly sure it wasn't NGTC, must be a show car or something.

[btccbloke]

you mean this wasnt a #gamechanger for yet another driver nobody has heard of and probably never will again?
Im surprised what a happy camp we have at Hard this year with no mid season changes in any of the series they are running

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

you mean this wasnt a #gamechanger for yet another driver nobody has heard of and probably never will again?
Im surprised what a happy camp we have at Hard this year with no mid season changes in any of the series they are running

You've never heard of Jack Goff? Thompson won the VW Cup, Crees won the Ginetta Supercup Am Championship and Boardley has been World Hot Rod Champion quite a few times...

And if you mean drivers that you really haven't heard of, maybe more teams should be doing it

[porsche962fan]

they do still have 3 rounds to go but if they succed this must be a record for this team !!! 4 drivers stayed thru the whole season

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

they do still have 3 rounds to go but if they succed this must be a record for this team !!! 4 drivers stayed thru the whole season

Aside from BMR, it would be a record for any team to run the same 4 drivers for a whole season.

Even 2/3-car teams have seen a 'revolving door' in previous years - yet HARD seem to face the harshest of criticism?

Team Parker '17
PMR '16
Handy '15
Team Dynamics '09

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by Pickles

You've never heard of Jack Goff? Thompson won the VW Cup, Crees won the Ginetta Supercup Am Championship and Boardley has been World Hot Rod Champion quite a few times...

And if you mean drivers that you really haven't heard of, maybe more teams should be doing it

Really? wow i never knew that in the 30+ years I've been following, have any other drivers ever won anything?

Considering you are a encyclopedia of motorsport with these amazing facts you might want to also look at how many times Team Hard have made driver changes in the second half of seasons compared to other teams, and then compare how many of these random drivers they use as replacements come back for more.
It is very unusual for Team Hard to be 7 rounds in and still have the same line up in all series that they started with, and when they have made replacements, it is unusual to see them come back as a full time driver in the future.

[thetool]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Aside from BMR, it would be a record for any team to run the same 4 drivers for a whole season.

Even 2/3-car teams have seen a 'revolving door' in previous years - yet HARD seem to face the harshest of criticism?

Team Parker '17
PMR '16
Handy '15
Team Dynamics '09

Triple Eight ran the same 4 drivers at all rounds in 2002.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by thetool

Triple Eight ran the same 4 drivers at all rounds in 2002.

Yes - I hadn't quite looked back that far.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

Really? wow i never knew that in the 30+ years I've been following, have any other drivers ever won anything?

Considering you are a encyclopedia of motorsport with these amazing facts you might want to also look at how many times Team Hard have made driver changes in the second half of seasons compared to other teams, and then compare how many of these random drivers they use as replacements come back for more.
It is very unusual for Team Hard to be 7 rounds in and still have the same line up in all series that they started with, and when they have made replacements, it is unusual to see them come back as a full time driver in the future.

Just thought I'd check as you obviously didn't take much notice in those 30 years. As has already been mentioned, other teams make driver changes without the drivers coming back for a full season... but you already knew that. Shame that only one team gets picked up on having a revolving door...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

how many times Team Hard have made driver changes in the second half of seasons compared to other teams, and then compare how many of these random drivers they use as replacements come back for more.
It is very unusual for Team Hard to be 7 rounds in and still have the same line up in all series that they started with, and when they have made replacements, it is unusual to see them come back as a full time driver in the future.

2015 and 2016 saw them with the same line up in R7 as R1.


Out of interest, I have decided to look at this and see what comes out of it.

2012:
Tony Gilham drove the first round in the Civic and ran Thorney's Insignia at the last.
Aaron Williamson drove the last round only in the Civic.
Thorney's lineup was also different from R1-R10.

2013:
HARD's R10 debutant was Tom Barley.
PPCGB saw Moffat in R10 in Onslow-Cole's R1 seat.
AmD saw Hollamby in R10 in James Kaye's R1 seat.

2015:
HARD's R10 driver Gilham was in Gallagher's R1 seat.
BMR's R10 Driver Menu was in Scott's R1 seat.

2016:
Gilham was in Smiley's R1 seat at HARD.
Neate's R1 seat at Team Dynamics was empty.

2017:
Will Burns' R1 seat at HARD was empty for R10 (only).
Eurotech had B.Smith in J.Smith's R1 seat.
Team Parker had Lines in Josh Cook's R1 seat.
Motorbase had Butcher in Davenport's R1 seat.
888 had Cook in Lloyd's R1 seat.

2018:
Ethan Hammerton was in Caine's R1 seat.
Ollie Pidgley was in Jake Hill's R1 seat.
BTC had Lloyd in James Nash's R1 seat.
AmD had Josh Caygill in Boardman's R1 seat.
WSR was Collard Jr in Collard Sr's R1 seat.
BMR saw Price's R1 seat empty.

2019:
All teams still with starting drivers.

So, of the replacement drivers that HARD have used in the R10 events, they list:
Williamson,
Barley,
Gilham x2
Hammerton,
Pidgley

I agree that there might not be much post-HARD success in BTCC for their replacement drivers, but you have to wonder if we'd have seen empty grid slots instead without the TBL regulations?
And if you are drafting in a replacement driver, do we really expect a team such as HARD to attract a big name?

It is also worth noting, for balance, the other drivers they have fielded:
Jack Goff missed one round in 2013
Epps and Hill ran full seasons in 2016 and 2017
Bushell and Thompson ran full seasons in 2018

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

2015 and 2016 saw them with the same line up in R7 as R1.


Out of interest, I have decided to look at this and see what comes out of it.

2012:
Tony Gilham drove the first round in the Civic and ran Thorney's Insignia at the last.
Aaron Williamson drove the last round only in the Civic.
Thorney's lineup was also different from R1-R10.

2013:
HARD's R10 debutant was Tom Barley.
PPCGB saw Moffat in R10 in Onslow-Cole's R1 seat.
AmD saw Hollamby in R10 in James Kaye's R1 seat.

2015:
HARD's R10 driver Gilham was in Gallagher's R1 seat.
BMR's R10 Driver Menu was in Scott's R1 seat.

2016:
Gilham was in Smiley's R1 seat at HARD.
Neate's R1 seat at Team Dynamics was empty.

2017:
Will Burns' R1 seat at HARD was empty for R10 (only).
Eurotech had B.Smith in J.Smith's R1 seat.
Team Parker had Lines in Josh Cook's R1 seat.
Motorbase had Butcher in Davenport's R1 seat.
888 had Cook in Lloyd's R1 seat.

2018:
Ethan Hammerton was in Caine's R1 seat.
Ollie Pidgley was in Jake Hill's R1 seat.
BTC had Lloyd in James Nash's R1 seat.
AmD had Josh Caygill in Boardman's R1 seat.
WSR was Collard Jr in Collard Sr's R1 seat.
BMR saw Price's R1 seat empty.

2019:
All teams still with starting drivers.

So, of the replacement drivers that HARD have used in the R10 events, they list:
Williamson,
Barley,
Gilham x2
Hammerton,
Pidgley

I agree that there might not be much post-HARD success in BTCC for their replacement drivers, but you have to wonder if we'd have seen empty grid slots instead without the TBL regulations?
And if you are drafting in a replacement driver, do we really expect a team such as HARD to attract a big name?

It is also worth noting, for balance, the other drivers they have fielded:
Jack Goff missed one round in 2013
Epps and Hill ran full seasons in 2016 and 2017
Bushell and Thompson ran full seasons in 2018

That's an interesting read Careful though, to many facts and you'll get accused of being an encyclopedia haha

[btccbloke]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

2013:
HARD's R10 debutant was Tom Barley.
PPCGB saw Moffat in R10 in Onslow-Cole's R1 seat.
AmD saw Hollamby in R10 in James Kaye's R1 seat.

A little more to this one, Team Hard also ran
James Cole,Howard Fuller,Kieran Gallagher, Jack Goff, Andy Wilmot, Rob Holland,Paul O'Neill all on a part time basis at different stages of 2013


2016 Caine also took a couple of rounds
2018 Also had Dan Welch and Boardley at different points


Its an interesting list but I dont really compare Motorbase having to drop a driver who was in a coma in 2017 or indeed any of the other drivers who had to leave the series after injuries from the Croft qualifying crashes with Team Hard bringing in anyone with a chequebook.


Your right its better than an empty grid slot but the plan seems to be quantity rather than quality, I am just surprised compared to the last season in particular (but also a number of recent seasons), how there seems to be continuity and harmony in the Hard camp

[Pickles]

Apologies BTCC Bloke if my comment came across wrong, I read your comment as if the current team of HARD drivers were nobodies

I do think they deserve some credit for supporting young drivers in all categories though.

[Evantra]

Ugh, isn't it about time we stop bashing HARD? They're not my favourite team, but to be running in as many championships with such a variety of different cars as they are needs applauding, not mocking. This all became tiresome a long time ago...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by btccbloke

ATeam Hard bringing in anyone with a chequebook.

Your right its better than an empty grid slot but the plan seems to be quantity rather than quality, I am just surprised compared to the last season in particular (but also a number of recent seasons), how there seems to be continuity and harmony in the Hard camp

Aren't most teams bringing in anyone with a chequebook?
Maybe the difference with HARD is that their drivers have not delivered on the cheques promised?

2013 was a particularly tumultuous time at HARD, but then they were only in their second season at that point.
Their approach has retained their entry whilst many others have dropped off the grid.
Instead of comparing them with Team Dynamics, WSR and Motorbase - perhaps we should be comparing them to:

BINZ Racing, Team ES Racing, Welch Motorsport, Thorney, Dynojet, Triple-8, RAR, Team Club 44, Finesse, Tech-Speed, Houseman, HMS, United Autosports, Rotek, SOP, BKR and Maximum.

Teams who have all been on the grid since HARD's arrival but failed to retain their position?

[antnee]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

2015 and 2016 saw them with the same line up in R7 as R1.


Out of interest, I have decided to look at this and see what comes out of it.

2012:
Tony Gilham drove the first round in the Civic and ran Thorney's Insignia at the last.
Aaron Williamson drove the last round only in the Civic.
Thorney's lineup was also different from R1-R10.

2013:
HARD's R10 debutant was Tom Barley.
PPCGB saw Moffat in R10 in Onslow-Cole's R1 seat.
AmD saw Hollamby in R10 in James Kaye's R1 seat.

2015:
HARD's R10 driver Gilham was in Gallagher's R1 seat.
BMR's R10 Driver Menu was in Scott's R1 seat.

2016:
Gilham was in Smiley's R1 seat at HARD.
Neate's R1 seat at Team Dynamics was empty.

2017:
Will Burns' R1 seat at HARD was empty for R10 (only).
Eurotech had B.Smith in J.Smith's R1 seat.
Team Parker had Lines in Josh Cook's R1 seat.
Motorbase had Butcher in Davenport's R1 seat.
888 had Cook in Lloyd's R1 seat.

2018:
Ethan Hammerton was in Caine's R1 seat.
Ollie Pidgley was in Jake Hill's R1 seat.
BTC had Lloyd in James Nash's R1 seat.
AmD had Josh Caygill in Boardman's R1 seat.
WSR was Collard Jr in Collard Sr's R1 seat.
BMR saw Price's R1 seat empty.

2019:
All teams still with starting drivers.

So, of the replacement drivers that HARD have used in the R10 events, they list:
Williamson,
Barley,
Gilham x2
Hammerton,
Pidgley

I agree that there might not be much post-HARD success in BTCC for their replacement drivers, but you have to wonder if we'd have seen empty grid slots instead without the TBL regulations?
And if you are drafting in a replacement driver, do we really expect a team such as HARD to attract a big name?

It is also worth noting, for balance, the other drivers they have fielded:
Jack Goff missed one round in 2013
Epps and Hill ran full seasons in 2016 and 2017
Bushell and Thompson ran full seasons in 2018

To show the info in a slightly different way;

2018;
BMR - Price did 5 rounds
BMW - Collards swapped @ R7
AMD MG - had 4 drivers in 1 car
BTC - Swap @ R4
Hard - 2 cars saw 6 different drivers between them
All other teams competed all rounds

2017;
PMR - Huff in for Chilton for R9
888 - Swapped @ R5
Motorbase - swapped @ R7 (injury)
Parker - 3 drivers in 1 car
Hard - Burns missed R10
Eurotech - swap at R6 (injury)
All other teams competed all rounds

2016;
Honda - Neate only did R1
Hard - 3 drivers in 1 car
Eurotech - Lloyd competed for 3 rounds
PMR - driver swapped for R7&8

2015;
BMW - Foster in for 1 round
Infinity - 1 car ran 3 rounds, 1 car ran 2 with 2 drivers
BMR - 1 change for R10
Motorbase - final 5 rounds only
Handy - Holland in for 2 rounds
Welch - Wilmot ran for 5 rounds, Welch missed 2 rounds
Dextra - missed 1 round, driver swap for 1 round
AMD S3 - final 6 rounds only, missed 1 and 1 driver change
Infinity - 1 car 7 rounds, 1 car 1 round
Hard - driver swap @ R9


So Hard aren't as bad as they seem (over the last 4 years anyway)

[Alfisti]

It's all gone a bit serious.

How about some frivolous speculation that this mystery extra VW is about to become the donor to make a fifth NGTC car so Tony can expand. And that Tarquini will drive it.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

How about some frivolous speculation that this mystery extra VW is about to become the donor to make a fifth NGTC car so Tony can expand. And that Tarquini will drive it.

I heard it was Mat Jackson, he deserves a drive

[S griffin]

I think HARD have done well to still be in the series, even if they haven’t been the most organised of teams

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

So Hard aren't as bad as they seem (over the last 4 years anyway)

I think their 2013 driver situation has resulted in them being typecast as the team that always swaps drivers.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It's all gone a bit serious.

How about some frivolous speculation that this mystery extra VW is about to become the donor to make a fifth NGTC car so Tony can expand. And that Tarquini will drive it.

I thought we were already in the frivolous speculation zone - just that the VW is for a driver swap!

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think their 2013 driver situation has resulted in them being typecast as the team that always swaps drivers.

Their 2013 driver situation was said to be one of the reasons why TBLs were introduced

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Their 2013 driver situation was said to be one of the reasons why TBLs were introduced

That and not all the entries managing to compete at every round