The scanner mega-thread

[Piglet]

Right...how about before we all start flogging our probans on ebay, we wait for something more concrete that the rumours started on this thread?

Personally, I'm in favour of scanners, certainly from my background in pits/startline, there are never enough radios to go around and it's really useful to know what is going on. I have also relied on knowing that marshals on the grid/in the pit lane have scanners to communicate info that I couldn't get to them otherwise.

From a race control point of view, we often assume that there are scanners on most posts and in some places if we can't get a post to respond to a phone we will do a "if anyone is listening on a scanner on post x can you put your phone back on the hook please". It means if we can see marshals on track and we're about to release cars, we can be fairly sure that they will hear the release and clear.

Let's not over react yet eh?

Oh and of course returning your tickets just hits the organising club for an event who may already be short of bodies. They will have no input to any new ruling and may not agree with it...

[welche2]

was told last week at silverstone that they had banned them on post. was told to remove it and put in my bag.
me i love to hear the btcc teams on their channels to find how they getting on with the set up and any problems which might be coming are way.
racesafe for bsb have changed their feq. and at brands hatch a lot of marshals was annoyed. some went home due to the fact the may com cant reach the new feq.

[westfieldbend]

Strange decision from the MSA... (if of course there has been a decision at all).

From listening into transmissions (as a spectator) I can see scanners are quite useful and if used better could be even more useful (If a proper communications system was introduced a 'control all points green flag' could actually mean the greens go out simultaneously as per FIA rules..)

Also sometimes race control rely on marshals having scanners, for example 'If anyone has a scanner at post 7 we need a yellow now' (recovery vehicle parked at brands pits 'back door' on warm up lap)

Admittedly they can be a little distracting at first but surely if everyone uses common sense they would actually improve marshaling rather then detract from it.

Well I'll still be using mine so if anyone wants to know whats going on I suppose they will have to ask me, the spectator, quite ridiculous!

I would not be encouraged to become a marshal when I'm 18 if such a rule was introduced.

[rbs]

If all of us that use scanners are told to leave a post because we will not stop using one do leave where will that leave the organising club? will they cancel a meeting because marshals heve been sent home and there are not enough left to man the circuit? I doubt it!!

They have tried to ban them in the past only to recind the instructions and then put messages out to marshals with scanners that lunch will be etc.

You could always give your scanner to your mate in the spectator area and ask him to keep you informed!!

[Sparky-steve]

i agree with piglet, lets wait until the MSA announce the ruling..

and then lets see how the MSA expect to get marshals at the tracks
would be interesting to see how they would.

i hope they consider the ramifications of this rule..that's if they are thinking of doing this thing.
so lets put our trust in the MSA,and see if they want to kill off motor sport or not, think it's up to them.

and to putting the probans on ebay, no point there'll be no one wanting them lol

[Lord Summerisle]

One hillclimb has got new radios this year, with encryption to remove any possiblity of scanner use. The clerk of the course has stated he does not like the use of scanners at all.

of course the roll out didnt go too well when the base station's encryption unit went haywire and we had to revert to a decrypted format.

ETA: one chap was saying to me at the weekend, he uses a scanner, even tho he normally has a radio for his normal duty, as he can have an earpiece on the scanner, but doesnt have one for the radio - therefore he can catch his radio call on the scanner, were he might miss it on the radio due to noise. (also being in a public position means the radio is low so its not broadcasted to those around, with the scanner ear piece loud enough to hear)

[Circuit boy]

The rule would appear to have come from some of the senior group of IO's at the circuit, wait until the MSA's proposed ruling that all Marshals wear only orange comes in, Silverstone will have the largest group of ****ed off marshals in the country.

[Sparky-steve]

I'm getting very confused about this issue.
what is the problem with marshals using scanners??
(OK some times the marshal could react to scanner info and not the track)
but in them cases the marshal should have a little word in his shell like.

so could any one shed any light on this??

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by welche2

was told last week at silverstone that they had banned them on post. was told to remove it and put in my bag.

I didn't hear that myself there last week, however I was A) On a post on my own, and B) issued with 2 official radios, so no room for a scanner.

When used sensibly, scanners are in invaluable tool; fact! (as are flags, binoculars, brooms, your own legs, and so on, which can cause problems if used the wrong way). IMHO, marshals should not only be encouraged to bring and use scanners, they should be issued with them at sign on*

I'm sure we can all cite countless examples of when things have been done better &/or safer thanks to having that extra bit of information about what's going on.

* - Yes I realise this will cost; it's an ideal, not something I actually expect to take place.

[HairyDJ]

IF the MSA are banning scanners, then I must have missed out on the open consultation as well as missing the letter telling me about that decision.

IF Silverstone (the Ltd company or the marshals' club?) are banning scanners then ditto .........

I was given to understand that the reason for banning scanners at Silverstone was because marshals were posting details (and sometimes photos) onto the internet within moments of major incidents occurring. I’ve gone back through my scanner documentation, but can’t find how to take pictures with it, or how to get internet connectivity. I would have no beef with any individual who posted such info being warned and potentially excluded, but deal with the offenders – don’t pi** off the vast majority who don’t.

IF the drive for this change is coming from the Silverstone IO folk, I wonder how they would react if a Post Chief over-rules them and permits scanners on their post? Similarly, if an organising club is happy for them to be used then who wins the argument – the circuit or the club hiring it for the day?

It would be pretty ludicrous if we reached the situation where photographers on our posts & the public standing behind us were continually more aware of hazards in our vicinity.

Most interesting today whilst marshalling for an ACU bike meeting to find our gaffer hoping to find his team each had scanners - as they were seen as a positive aid to doing the job well and happily.

However we might choose to react, IF this dictat is formally issued, please try to avoid ruining a day’s racing for a bunch of drivers who are unaware of the issue. My anarchic alter ego rather fancies a stand-off where all the marshals put on their scanners. Give all the IOs the choice of throwing out so many folk that the Steward is forced to cancel the meeting, or standing themselves down to discuss the meaning of the words volunteer and democracy whilst we get on with the job! Hopefully this needn’t arise and both august bodies will shortly confirm that a scanner related caution / preference has been unfortunately overstated as an edict?

[MagnetON]

Have to put my hat in the "who cares" camp. If race control want me to know what's going on then I'll have a radio. Same if I'm on a flag post, If I need to be in contact with race control then a radio will be provided.

I've considered buying a scanner, given their almost omni-presence in the UK, but decided against it for reasons above.

I've been on posts with UK marshals where there is far too much listening in on scanners and commenting on what's happening elsewhere on the circuit to the detriment of the marshaling of the post.

There's no way people are concentrating 100% on the job at hand if they are listening to a radio.

"What about post chiefs / IO's then?", Yes, I know they are also listening to radios, but there's a difference, in general these aren't the first people on the post that should be reacting to an incident, so they can divide their attentions.

[numbersix]

I think I'll start an unsubstantiated rumour thread so we can all argue about vapourware: For example ...

"Did you know the MSA are thinking about ..."

Only using attractive marshals for hi-TV coverage events
Unpolished boots, dirty kit.
Wearing helmets
Wearing goggles
Taking a physical fitness test
Having Ten-Tenths be monitored by Thought Police
Wearing sponsor's logos/caps at major events
Banning of silly or non-regulation hats
Banning scanners..."

Spot the ones we've actually had threads/heated debates on.

[Lord Summerisle]

Only using attractive marshals for hi-TV coverage events

didnt one event say that = only to retract it when no one volunteered....

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

Hopefully this needn’t arise and both august bodies will shortly confirm that a scanner related caution / preference has been unfortunately overstated as an edict?

Hopefully this is the case. I know some IOs at Silverstone don't like them but I'm sure if they politely asked people to not use them, they wouldn't. The difference with Silverstone is that IOs have radio headsets & most will keep you informed of what's going on around the circuit & tell you when to be back on post etc, so there really isn't a need for scanners. If you do want to keep up with what's going on in the race, then use a small radio to tune into the commentary. I've done this at long races-in fact, at the 2cv 24hr, marshals were given radios specifically for this reason.

Maybe a few 'official guidelines' do need to be made, for instance, no scanners to be used by trainees (they really can be a distraction at this level), only one scanner per post etc etc.

As for the potential MSA ban - it is only a rumour so let's not over react just yet!

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Circuit boy

The rule would appear to have come from some of the senior group of IO's at the circuit

I think I begin to surmise a theory here...

Lots of IOs and Observers (and higher officials too by the looks of it) don't like having scanners on post. The reasons why are down to personal preference and you'd have to ask them. It could be possible that one of these anti scanner people told one of his team to put his device away, and via chinese whispers the rumour has grown and now there's a scanner ban (and as a side effect all IOs are Barstewards)... that isn't, if you see what I mean.

For the umpteenth time: We need official clarification one way or another before taking action. If the rumour has substance to it, then I'll react to it... by carrying on Marshalling with or without my scanner. So much talk about giving up; give up why? We're supposed to be some of the best marshals in the world aren't we? Is it totally impossible to expect us to adapt to not having scanners? I'd miss the useful radio conversations, and maybe I wouldn't be able to deploy red flags/Safety car boards as quick as before, but I don't rely upon it. As previously mentioned - I react to the circuit for flag deployments... as it should be. A little extra warning to find the flag in the rack [or if at Silverstone, floor of the flag point where it's fallen over AGAIN] is useful, but not essential.

I'm not saying that a total ban is wrong - I don't see what banning scanners will achieve. Also if it's being implemented because of a minority of fools who do what they're told not to, then that's not right either, but at the end of the day we don't make up the rules, we have to play by them. If motorsport stopped because we all threw our scanners out the pram and stopped because we don't want to obey a rule that rightly or wrongly has been applied to us, who would Joe Public blame first when events got cancelled because no-one could be bothered to turn out to Marshal?

[HairyDJ]

not quite the same thing as those old threads (well remembered btw) - some of the IO's attempting to enforce this "rule" are citing the MSA as the authority that they are bowing to.

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by HairyDJ

not quite the same thing as those old threads (well remembered btw) - some of the IO's attempting to enforce this "rule" are citing the MSA as the authority that they are bowing to.

I rest my case, M'lud.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by The STIG

For the umpteenth time: We need official clarification one way or another before taking action.

If only we had some sort of one-way communication system, by which the powers that be could broadcast information to everyone officially thus keeping us all informed

[The STIG]

**deleted**

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

If only we had some sort of one-way communication system, by which the powers that be could broadcast information to everyone officially thus keeping us all informed

Better still, a proper two-way communication system [trolling]landline[/trolling].

I've never used a scanner. There have been very infrequent occasions where it would have been useful and none where it was necessary. There have been many more occasions where my colleague was incommunicative all day because he was listening to his.

At this stage I've heard nothing official saying a ban is imposed or imminent. I suggest we all wait for news, and in the meantime consider how necessary they are anyway.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Woolley

There have been very infrequent occasions where it would have been useful and none where it was necessary.

There have been no occasions whatsoever when my steel toecaps have been useful or necessary, and I could get to incidents faster with trainers.....think I should ditch the boots?

I've seen marshals still returning from the circuit on green flag laps and signalled them to hurry (and indeed been in the same position myself), I've been prepared for the afore mentioned reds and SCs, I've stopped cars, after a red flag before a blocked track, and released them when RC has signalled it's clear to do so, I've been made aware of changes to timetable, green flag laps, and lord knows what else. Today, I was on 4a. I needed the loo, before a race with no green flag lap. Because I had a scanner, I was confident that I could cross the track to the portaloos, and on my return I was fully aware of what was happeing at the startline and knew I had time to get across. Without the scanner, I'd have either had to go all the way up to the kentagon and potentially be absent for the start, or taken my mother's advice and tied a knot in it.

Of course they are not necessary, just like the steel toe caps (if you're ever in a position when the toe caps are useful, you've done something wrong), but it's nice to have that extra bit of protection for the times when it does go wrong, and keeping informed on what is going on is a real benefit, too.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

If only we had some sort of one-way communication system, by which the powers that be could broadcast information to everyone officially thus keeping us all informed

we do!
there called scanners

[rbs]

I have had IO's say that they do want scanners using at Silverstone this year and yes, as a post chief, I have said use them, they are a useful tool when used correctly and as good training medium when poor messages are transmitted. in the long term a scanner should help any marshal learn to do the IO grade if they filter the good from the bad. My IO on Saturday did not mention the banning of scanners and one of the ES team did use a scanner.

[SRPhoto]

I am an IO (but not at Silverstone!) Personally I have no problems with the team using scanners as long as they do not instantly react to them.

They can be very useful for general information and to get ready to react to an indecent or situation. When the circuits and clubs start using digital radios then the analogue scanner well become useless anyway, but until that time then I do not have a problem with the team knowing the information the same time as me, I don't feel I need to keep secrets from them!

[JimW]

I'm always surprised when legislators attempt to introduce rules without an ability to enforce them.

I've seen as many problems from people listening to commentators' remarks about red flags as I have from ill-judged scanner use.

There are times when Post Chiefs would have no idea WTF is happening at meetings without scanners.

Let's hope this turns out just to be a rumour and the attempts, of what I believe to be the obsession of one club to introduce this, are not successful.

Regards

Jim