The scanner mega-thread

[Jim Lamb]

One of the Key things to take away from this discussion is the balance between the Scanner being useful and not!
Those of you with good memories may remember Radio/Communications training sessions where we talk about the ratio between Audio and Visual communications and what gets lost in the process because the other aspect is more prominent. This can cause all manner of mayhem when messages get mis-heard, mis-interpreted(loss of context) not heard or just not understood.

In a Motorsports situation you need access to all of your Audio/Visual Senses to stay safe. With either diminished you are potentially at risk and this is a dangerous environment.

If you are new to Marshaling, I’d suggest, putting the scanner to one side or only using it in between Live Sessions until you have a good appreciation of the environment/situation, some of the Old hands make it seem easy, but they seem to have developed a 6th sense over the years, however none of us is Infallible.

It’s worth noting that elite & high performing teams in Sport, Industry & the military concentrate on “Learn the basics, practice them, do them well when required and have focus on your main aim” only then should you think about adding other skills or Kit.

I am not against scanner use, I am a firm believer that in many instances they can be very useful, some of you will know of my experience in this respect . Information is key, however, how you act on the Info heard is crucial. You will find that you have to adopt good discipline not to take certain courses of action.

Kind Regards, stay safe,

Jim

Jim Lamb

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Jim Lamb

If you are new to Marshaling, I’d suggest, putting the scanner to one side or only using it in between Live Sessions until you have a good appreciation of the environment/situation, some of the Old hands make it seem easy, but they seem to have developed a 6th sense over the years, however none of us is Infallible.

It’s worth noting that elite & high performing teams in Sport, Industry & the military concentrate on “Learn the basics, practice them, do them well when required and have focus on your main aim” only then should you think about adding other skills or Kit.

The voice of (real!) experience.

[mattt]

well my view on scanners as a pits/startline marshal who is now starting to venture out on the bank on occasion.

I always use the scanner in the pits or on the startline because i feel it really useful and helps. i didn't use it in my first season though

In my one experience out on the bank, i deliberately did not use my scanner because i feel that it will distract me and prevent me from learning the duty properly.

[Drummer]

I haven't read through everything, but I've scanned through it (pun intended...)

I must say, if rules are being bent or broken, it's not because people are using scanners, it's because those people are not doing their jobs properly. If all cars have radios, and all teams are on the ball, telling their drivers that there's an incident at a certain point on the circuit, would it be acceptable to not bother putting out yellow flags, because one would assume all the drivers to be aware of the incident? If you're there to do a job, you really ought to do it, even if it's unlikely to help.

If you consider that the main cause of fires at an incident is fuel (i.e. petrol), would you not bother to take bottles to an incident with a battery powered car? If, of course, you just assumed that there wouldn't be a fire.

You should never assume anything, ever! The point I'm making is that scanners have nothing to do with people not doing things properly.

As far as the whole "information overload" thing goes, if I was to suffer from that, I'd turn it off. I really would prefer to be in the know, than not, but that's me. People say that, if I need to know something, I'll be told, but how can I be, when I'm half way up the pit wall, on my own, out of ear shot of any other marshals? Also, even the "useless" information I could receive over a scanner could help me learn things. If there's no such thing as a stupid question, how can there be such thing as information that I don't need to know, or, indeed, shouldn't know?

Not trying to flame or cause any offence, I'm not like that... When I'm sober! (And yes, I'm sober, thanks!)

Looking forward to seeing some of you this weekend, at Silverstone!

[Jim Lamb]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Seems to me scanners are becoming necessary because proper procedures and passing on of information isn't happening.

Chris, I have just re-read a number of the submissions in the thread and your statement above, sums it up.

Poor communication encourages people to seek more Information (because we are all pro-active types). Scanners fit the bill, people assume that those with a Scanner will have heard a message and Interpreted it correctly.
In fact, they may not have heard it and there will certainly be a percentage who mis-interpret. That's not necessarily their fault, it could be through lack of experience, passing on of established habits & practice etc. Unfortunately it is a viscious circle.

A useful Training session for the future I think?

R's Jim

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Pete LMC

At the end of a Race a message from Race Control, " All Marshals Clear the Circuit Immediately 2 Cars Have Taken The Chequerd Flag Twice "

I can tell you it was a bl**dy good job, that most Marshals on that Post were using scanners

Maybe we need to take a step back & examine what is the real problem here. Is it drivers who have taken the chequered flag twice or marshals who have gone trackside too soon, despite having repeatedly been told to wait until the course car has passed?

[HairyDJ]

Hmmm, course car - the first thing to get dropped when timetables get too tight. Of course, if you've got a scanner you might hear the message that there won't be a course car coming out .....

But - it doesn't need everybody to have a scanner on each sub-post, just folk that talk to each other to keep everyone informed and safe.

[Richard Duvall]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Maybe we need to take a step back & examine what is the real problem here. Is it drivers who have taken the chequered flag twice or marshals who have gone trackside too soon, despite having repeatedly been told to wait until the course car has passed?

I've seen many occasions when the course car hasn't come out between sessions. How are reports meant to be handed to the course car if you don't come out until it has passed?

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

despite having repeatedly been told to wait until the course car has passed?

...because you never hear the message "watch out course car, you've got two behind you!," do you?!

The course car does not guarantee that nothing's going to come round*. Anybody who relies solely on this, is at as much risk as people who rely solely on scanners.

* - And that's when the course car actually comes out, which is often not the case.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Richard Duvall

I've seen many occasions when the course car hasn't come out between sessions. How are reports meant to be handed to the course car if you don't come out until it has passed?

OK, semantics . . . "wait for the course car".

In many instances, depending on the circuit, it's not the course car that collects reports, but another car driven by a clerk of the chief observer (sorry, chief post chief!) who should, in any case, be aware of which posts have reports to hand in.

Going back to my previous post, if the cars which have taken the chequered flag twice are behind the course car, all bets are off!

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

if the cars which have taken the chequered flag twice are behind the course car, all bets are off!

Unless you had some sort of one-way communications system that everybody could listen to and be warned by. Hmm, yes yes, this all sounds familiar.

/case

[Woolley]

[QUOTE=Guinness2702;2889235The course car does not guarantee that nothing's going to come round[/QUOTE]

It should, since it shouldn't be sent out until the last car has pitted.

[Pete LMC]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Maybe we need to take a step back & examine what is the real problem here. Is it drivers who have taken the chequered flag twice or marshals who have gone trackside too soon, despite having repeatedly been told to wait until the course car has passed?

I stand to be corrected, but as far as I recall the Safety Car was out on the circuit ? from the bottom of the pit lane ? opposite Old Hall Box.

Irrespective of the Safety Car being on circuit or not, the problem and dangerous situation still presented itself, and if the SC was not out then a great number of Marshals were all guilty of inspecting the track too soon on that day.

PS, Your Signature.

Research indicates that 73% of the drivel posted on ten-tenths could be avoided if people would listen at training days, read the Blue Book or just simply read previous posts in a thread before posting.

In addition I would like to add that what starts off as a very sensible and valid thread, for some unknown reason very very quickly turns into a load of piffle and drivel.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It should, since it shouldn't be sent out until the last car has pitted.

Let me know next time it actually happens that way, and maybe I'll reconsider using a scanner In the mean time, there's nothing that *I'm* doing wrong which causes the course car to be out when it's not 100% safe for me, so I'll stick with the extra info, thanks

[Norbert]

Originally Posted by Woolley

It should, since it shouldn't be sent out until the last car has pitted.

That will never happen, particularly is these days of tight timetables!

[Sticker Rub]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

...marshals who have gone trackside too soon, despite having repeatedly been told to wait until the course car has passed?

In my 6 seasons on the bank, I don't recall ever being told to wait for the course car. I do it as a matter of common sense, except where I hear on the scanner that there will be no course car.

Anyone going trackside without watching out for oncoming traffic, whether the track is live or not, isn't safe to be there.

[skeee]

Does anyone know the scanner frequency for the Post Chief's radio at Thruxton?

The standard MSA freq that works for the Post Chief radios at Combe and Brands is the rescue/recovery/safety car channel at Thruxton which is useful and sometimes entertaining but I'd rather listen to other Post Chiefs for a 'heads up' as to what's coming!

Feel free to send a pm if you don't wish to publicise the freq. Thanks. (Optimistically in advance!)

[chriskench]

hi just like to know if anyone thinks it worth getting a scaner i have onley done 20 days so would you think its worth me getting one thanks chris

[Dave Brand]

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

I was gonna go with

Chris, if you're genuinely curious, please search this sub-forum, as there is plenty of debate, some of it recent. We really don't want to go through this one again, especially not so soon after the latest round.

[Tris1976]

Found that at the BTCC it had been changed to 164.0750

[skeee]

Thanks again!

I'll try that next time I'm there.

[skeee]

Surely only you can decide this one!

As a simple equation the cheaper you can buy one the more likely it is worth it.

I got a Maycom AR108 (seems to be the popular choice- but ask around at your next meeting) for just over 40 quid from Maplins. It is a 'B' grade but nowt wrong with it. I marshalled for just over a year (about 40 meetings!) before I got it and find it very useful.

Trick is to get used to paying attention to what's happenning on track first and to use the scanner as an aid to help this and not vice versa!
But I do have a lot of experience of ignoring two way radios so that helps!

[Stoowert]

Is it worth getting a scanner? No!*...Yes!**

*If I, and a few sensible marshals get our way and we replace the outmoded, dangerous telephone system with a Land Line system that the septics have been using since 1967!

**In the meantime, if you want to have any clue as what's going on, get one! As you have done 20 days marshalling I trust you to use it only as "Listen Only" and not to act on any message heard. It comes in very handy on, say, long circuit posts at Brands where the world would end and you'd be the last to know! Or you could tune your tranny into the commentry. Sometimes more relevant!

[mikenunn-78]

Originally Posted by Stoowert

long circuit posts at Brands where the world would end and you'd be the last to know!

Or even where a race can start and you'll be the last to know