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Old 17 Oct 2012, 20:11 (Ref:3153533)   #51
David Towe
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Old 18 Oct 2012, 04:18 (Ref:3153680)   #52
Rob Bailey
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Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON View Post
I suggested dropping regularity on the Group C forum and got shouted down.
Would that be because so many of the VHRR members no longer have a full D/L?
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Old 18 Oct 2012, 23:55 (Ref:3154123)   #53
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This will surely annoy some Group N fans, but although they are all old cars, very few Group N cars actually have a racing history. I think this is just about the only category in the historic movement where this is the case?? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think your point David misses the mark.

Accepted that Group N cars aren't true historic cars in the literal-racing history definition, but in some ways that's irrelevant. What Group N does is gives the drivers, crews and spectators an "approximation" of what series production cars and improved production cars were like in a pretty narrow period of time. With Group N, whilst everybody understands the limited authenticity, surely it is a good thing to see an xu1 howling, a Charger squirming and a HO roaring for those who were "born too late" or would like to relive some good times past. The race cars of the era simply haven't survived, they weren't considered valuable enough to be given kid-glove museum treatment for 40 years. By the time people realised they were treasures it was too late. I believe Group N ( and the TCM even) perform a valuable service by giving the "great unwashed" access to a bygone era.

Anyway the real issue at Phillip Island must be space, otherwise why wouldn't you go from 4 races - which is probably too much for lots of old timers, to 3 races each and open up the time? Surely there is time enough for all? Nobody has tackled the space issue.

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Old 19 Oct 2012, 00:55 (Ref:3154138)   #54
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Originally Posted by hey charger View Post
I think your point David misses the mark.

Accepted that Group N cars aren't true historic cars in the literal-racing history definition, but in some ways that's irrelevant. What Group N does is gives the drivers, crews and spectators an "approximation" of what series production cars and improved production cars were like in a pretty narrow period of time. With Group N, whilst everybody understands the limited authenticity, surely it is a good thing to see an xu1 howling, a Charger squirming and a HO roaring for those who were "born too late" or would like to relive some good times past. The race cars of the era simply haven't survived, they weren't considered valuable enough to be given kid-glove museum treatment for 40 years. By the time people realised they were treasures it was too late. I believe Group N ( and the TCM even) perform a valuable service by giving the "great unwashed" access to a bygone era.

Hey Charger
not to mention that Group N and App J have been around for donkeys, well before some of the "newer" categories. And why have regularities?
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 01:22 (Ref:3154145)   #55
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With 17 categories of historic race cars falling under the CAMS historic banner, plus regularity, something had to give.

In the interests of providing competitors with value for money, solid track time and a spot in the paddock I can understand why the VHRR felt the need to put a plan like this in place going forward. Especially given there are likely to be further historic categories of racing added in the future (SuperTourers? Formula Holden?).

At least with this system there is ample notice of which categories will be dropped and when. Its the best way to ensure eveyone gets a fair run at such a popular event.

And I think the officials will be happier too...marshalling and managing 500+ cars and competitors is no mean feat. It also equates to about 200 targeted scrutiny audits being due
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 11:31 (Ref:3154313)   #56
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Originally Posted by hey charger View Post
I think your point David misses the mark.

Accepted that Group N cars aren't true historic cars in the literal-racing history definition, but in some ways that's irrelevant. What Group N does is gives the drivers, crews and spectators an "approximation" of what series production cars and improved production cars were like in a pretty narrow period of time. With Group N, whilst everybody understands the limited authenticity, surely it is a good thing to see an xu1 howling, a Charger squirming and a HO roaring for those who were "born too late" or would like to relive some good times past. The race cars of the era simply haven't survived, they weren't considered valuable enough to be given kid-glove museum treatment for 40 years. By the time people realised they were treasures it was too late. I believe Group N ( and the TCM even) perform a valuable service by giving the "great unwashed" access to a bygone era.

Anyway the real issue at Phillip Island must be space, otherwise why wouldn't you go from 4 races - which is probably too much for lots of old timers, to 3 races each and open up the time? Surely there is time enough for all? Nobody has tackled the space issue.

Hey Charger
Beautifully put HC, very true. I wasn't having a shot at the category as a racing category, some of the best racing I've watched has been Group N.
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 12:33 (Ref:3154350)   #57
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With the meet at Sandown, is it an event where they allow spectators somewhere other than the pit garage and grandstand?
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 22:35 (Ref:3154564)   #58
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With the meet at Sandown, is it an event where they allow spectators somewhere other than the pit garage and grandstand?
Yes there will be spaces open on the hill.
Talking to a VHRR member this week it's a pretty disappointing turnout for an event that celebrates Sandown's 50th anniversary,
The track itself has tried it's best to support and promote this meeting but apparently internal VHRR politics may be getting in the way.
On the topic of PI it's only fair that they rotate the classes that can't compete, the meeting is chocker block full already and there's not the space or time for every class to run every year.
I think the criticism is indicative of all that is wrong with local Historic Racing with a whole bunch of noisy little groups all demanding their place in the sun as if by some god given right and everybody thinking that their class is the true heart and soul of the sport.
The PI Historic Classic has been an enormous success but if the VHRR aren't careful they will find it's hijacked away from them.
I hear rumours that there are at least three groups trying to do that already.
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 23:22 (Ref:3154574)   #59
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Yes there will be spaces open on the hill.
Talking to a VHRR member this week it's a pretty disappointing turnout for an event that celebrates Sandown's 50th anniversary,
The track itself has tried it's best to support and promote this meeting but apparently internal VHRR politics may be getting in the way.
On the topic of PI it's only fair that they rotate the classes that can't compete, the meeting is chocker block full already and there's not the space or time for every class to run every year.
I think the criticism is indicative of all that is wrong with local Historic Racing with a whole bunch of noisy little groups all demanding their place in the sun as if by some god given right and everybody thinking that their class is the true heart and soul of the sport.
The PI Historic Classic has been an enormous success but if the VHRR aren't careful they will find it's hijacked away from them.
I hear rumours that there are at least three groups trying to do that already.
Good ,would be the best for the event for a new group/company to take that meeting over,the VHRR ,its the same old thing year in year out.
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Old 20 Oct 2012, 03:13 (Ref:3154622)   #60
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Yes there will be spaces open on the hill.
As bad as it might make me look, stuff like that can make a difference on whether or not I turn up.


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Originally Posted by inpitlane View Post
On the topic of PI it's only fair that they rotate the classes that can't compete, the meeting is chocker block full already and there's not the space or time for every class to run every year.
I think the criticism is indicative of all that is wrong with local Historic Racing with a whole bunch of noisy little groups all demanding their place in the sun as if by some god given right and everybody thinking that their class is the true heart and soul of the sport.
I remember watching the show, in the lead up to this year's meeting, where you were saying it probably warranted 2 weekends.

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Good ,would be the best for the event for a new group/company to take that meeting over,the VHRR ,its the same old thing year in year out.
Tony Cochrane's got nothing to do next year.
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Old 13 Nov 2012, 10:20 (Ref:3165828)   #61
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The only reason why I bumped this thread is because there wasn't one about Sandown on the weekend, it seems it wasn't worth starting a thread about it anyway, and this is a thread about an historic meeting.

So, anybody go? Some stories/observations? I could only go on Saturday. In enjoyed the fact I could go somewhere other than the main straight. That Benetton I don't think is a really good looking car whenever I see it on tv. But up close, it is a pretty machine. It looks in proportion, a great looking car compared to the poo we've seen in GP the last 15 years. The Sabre Buick is an Indycar? I had nfi it even existed. Nobody who I asked that was around me had any idea it existed as well.

There was also a nice looking car that I took a poor photo of in the j k lb and invited cars in it's qualifying session. It was a sliver car, no 2, couldn't find what it was in the program. Anyway, I thought I'd take a better one of it during it's race. It rolls through, dandenong rd in second, took another bad photo of it. No worries, next lap. Next lap, the car leading passes through, then a long gap to second place, the silver car was missing, it broke down! Then the races finishes, I'm just daydreaming waiting for the next race. As I'm sitting there opposite the Jim Beam bridge, I was caught totally unaware as it was being towed past me back to the pits. So I missed out again!
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Old 13 Nov 2012, 10:31 (Ref:3165836)   #62
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Watching Brett do his stuff right now.
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Old 14 Nov 2012, 07:49 (Ref:3166153)   #63
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I'm not sure but is this the car you are talking of:
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Old 15 Nov 2012, 00:42 (Ref:3166477)   #64
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I'm not sure but is this the car you are talking of:
I am quite sure it is the Lister Jag.

It was unloaded from a container from the U.K on Saturday morning, fuelled, scrutineered and hit the track within 40 min of the container doors opening.
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Old 15 Nov 2012, 02:01 (Ref:3166487)   #65
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it is the Lister Jag, it has been here before as we did a story on it for In Pit Lane at the PI Historic about 8 years ago.
We then saw it again at Dijon later that year. It is a stunning car.
And fast too.
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Old 15 Nov 2012, 09:36 (Ref:3166547)   #66
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That is exactly the car I meant.
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Old 16 Nov 2012, 02:46 (Ref:3166926)   #67
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D type dunlop rims on the front rather give the game away don't they!
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