2010 Crash Helmet regs.

[Marshall74]

Hello guys

Im going to have to replace my aged crash-hat for next season as it bears the old BS-1985 Type-A Blue label which runs out at the end of this year..

I seem to remember reading on here somewhere that new approval SNELL SA2010? regulated helmets should be available from Oct 09 onwards, so i've been waiting before deciding on a new one

does anyone know whats likely to happen with this- or what i should be aiming to look for with regard to the regulations and which approval type is sensible / likely to remain valid for racing for the longest?


thanks in advance for any advice

Marshall

[Tim Falce]

Snell seems to be lifed with Snell2000 possibly not usable after this year. Probably the best bet is BS-1985 Type-A/FR red label. But if you go for a Snell 2010 that'll probably give you ten years and would you want to use a helmet that is more than 10 years old?

[BrendanM]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

Snell seems to be lifed with Snell2000 possibly not usable after this year. Probably the best bet is BS-1985 Type-A/FR red label. But if you go for a Snell 2010 that'll probably give you ten years and would you want to use a helmet that is more than 10 years old?

Has the Snell 2000 been confirmed as not acceptable for next year yet ? Or are we waiting for Blue Book ?

[Tim Falce]

I can't say I noticed in any of the MSA mags tbh

[scrutineer]

They (the MSA) have not confirmed if the SA2000 will be withdrawn at the end of this year or not, you may get another year out of it yet. If I hear anything different I will post here.
I wouldnt suggest getting a BS type A/FR, they have removed the blue british standard and if you check the blue book they make a point of saying that the type A/FR may be withdrawn on the 1st Jan 2010. I dont believe they would be easy to get though as I dont think they have been made to that standard for a few years as the new EU standards came in (which are not accepted by the FIA or MSA).
If your looking at getting a new helmet try and get a SA2010, as said above you should get at least 10 years out of it, other than that get a good discount on a SA2005 which should be good for around 5 years.

[Marshall74]

Many thanks

Are Snell2010 regulated hats avaliable now?

[Chris Y]

Although they don't update their site too often, try contacting these people: http://www.v2sport.com/index.html and ask if the new hats they're producing are to SA2010 standard.

[Marshall74]

Thanks, the v2 hats do seem very good value - I have emailed to ask, also if they have a HANS post option, as i think it may be a good idea to have the posts just in case the(much-discussed)device does become mandatory in the near future..

[haggispeed]

I did happen to ask a scrutineer ref Snell 2000 recently, they should still be OK for 2010, as they are lifed for 10 years from 2000, not 9. However is probably worht checking before your first meeting.
I have found in the past that when the new Snell certification is done it takes a while for the latest helmets to get into stock at the suppliers, maybe March / April time. They obviously need to move old stock before ordering fresh.

[Turby]

Originally Posted by scrutineer

I wouldnt suggest getting a BS type A/FR, they have removed the blue british standard and if you check the blue book they make a point of saying that the type A/FR may be withdrawn on the 1st Jan 2010.

You sure ?

Reading the 2009 blue book C(c)...

91. All MSA and International Events
• FIA 8860-2004
• SNELL SA2005
• SNELL SA2000*
• SFI Foundation 31.1A, 31.2A
• BS 6658 Type A/FR
* May be withdrawn with effect from 01/01/10.

ie SNELL 2000 MAY be withdrawn from Jan 2010, BS 6658 Type A/FR is fine

92. All MSA Events
• BS 6658 – 85 Type A (Type ‘B’ is not acceptable)*
* Withdrawn with effect from 01/01/10.

ie BS 6658 – 85 Type A (NOT Type A/FR) will be withdrawn from Jan 2010

[MGDavid]

I think SA2000 is unacceptable by FIA from 1jan10 so if you are thinking of racing across the ditch then you need to wait for SA2010. I don't think Colnbrook have said yet whether they will follow suit or not.

[edmse]

If you have a moment or two take a look at:

http://www.hedtec.co.uk

Snell SA2005 and a HANS helmet available soon too.

[midgetman]

They look nice Ed, bring one up to Lacock for me to look at sometime will you, need to chat to you about them.

Max

[tim dodwell]

Only just found out that the type A is not allowed in 2010. Since I not long ago bought a new one to that standard, am somewhat miffed - especially to find the only difference to the allowed type A/FR is that the lining is not fire resistant. Surely our head will be toast before the lining is alight? Also, I feel we were not notified properly of this matter. This year's blue book is not quite clear, and the only other notification I could find is in "Motorsports Now" mag (spring 2008) page 45 - which is even worse.
Hence I have Emailed John Symes (john.symes@msauk.org) to lodge an objection (unnecessary costs).

[andy97]

Whatever you do, don't buy a helmet until you have tried it on. Manufacturers all have a different view of what represents a "standard shape" head for a given size. Don't always consider that an expensive helmet is a better bet than a cheaper one either. I had a perfectly good Bell which I had to replace purely because I bought it mail order without having tried it on and I found that it pinched my forhead so that after a race I would have a head ache. My new helment is a far cheaper Sparco, of a smaller nominal size, that is far more comfortable.

[SWCRacing]

Exactly what part of "Withdrawn fronm 01/01/2010" isn't clear?

And the whole point of it being mentioned in Motorsports Now in 2008 was to give licence holders the chance to comment / raise objections etc!

You know when your licence comes through your letter box attached to the Blue Book, take a few moments to look at the changes, which helpfully are highlighted in red! That way you won't be surprised like you have been!

[Al Weyman]

Well my AVG lid was new in 2006 is that now scrap or not I wonder. This thing is killing this sport I tell you. I don't give a toss whether I have been told or not I dont want to scrap yet another perfectly good helmet, I now have three of them on the garage wall and three sets of good belts its just ridiculous.

[SWCRacing]

Depending on the certification, unfortunately, yes.

I have a perfectly good Snell 95 helmet that is only good for use as a paperweight. Replaced it in early 2005, and the two major retailers in this country either tried to fob me off with a Snell 2000, or said that the particular model I wanted wasn't being made. So I went direct to the manufacturer (Bell) and got exactly what I wanted direct from them in Belgium.

[haggispeed]

and you can't even use them to ride your motorbike (legally) as they're not UK approved.... think they have to have the ACU sticker, or something that won't be on race helmet anyway

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by andy97

Whatever you do, don't buy a helmet until you have tried it on. Manufacturers all have a different view of what represents a "standard shape" head for a given size. Don't always consider that an expensive helmet is a better bet than a cheaper one either. I had a perfectly good Bell which I had to replace purely because I bought it mail order without having tried it on and I found that it pinched my forhead so that after a race I would have a head ache. My new helment is a far cheaper Sparco, of a smaller nominal size, that is far more comfortable.

That is a good point and I have an expensive bell helmet that I have to keep my hair short as it pinches my forehead as well.

Next time I'd like to try them on before purchasing. However one helmet I want now is a Stilo and most of the stockists in the USA don't really care a stock of them.

[simes43]

Snell 2000 helmets will be OK to use until October 2010.

This delay will allow the manufacturers to be able to offer Snell 2010 units, with the correct tags/label

[tim dodwell]

Referring to the 2009 blue book (p168):
91. BS 6658 Type A/FR
Usually when things are written thing X/Y, it means thing X or thing Y.
92. BS 6658 85 Type A (Type B is not acceptable)*
* Withdrawn with effect from 01/01/10
This suggests to me that Type B is not acceptable from 01/01/10.
The 2008 Motorsports Now mag does NOT mention anything about all this.
If there was a genuine safety issue, I could accept all this - but I still say our heads would be fried before the lining was to catch fire.

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by tim dodwell

Referring to the 2009 blue book (p168):
91. BS 6658 Type A/FR
Usually when things are written thing X/Y, it means thing X or thing Y.
92. BS 6658 85 Type A (Type B is not acceptable)*
* Withdrawn with effect from 01/01/10
This suggests to me that Type B is not acceptable from 01/01/10.
The 2008 Motorsports Now mag does NOT mention anything about all this.
If there was a genuine safety issue, I could accept all this - but I still say our heads would be fried before the lining was to catch fire.

Tim, cant see how you can not understand that. I think it is one of the most clear things in the blue book. Type B have never been acceptable so why would they be withdrawn from 01/01/10 if they are not acceptable now? As has already been said it was put out for information in 2008 which means you had loads of time to contact the MSA. However I dont believe they have made british standard for a number of years (gone over to EU standards) so it is sensible to remove them from the blue book.
Al, what helmet standard is your AVG?
Just for info the latest copy of motorsport now has just come out so I would recomend having a quick read to check on changes for next year.

[Podd37]

simes43, are you sure on this or is it discretionary on race day? I run on an Irish licence so we don't get the blue book. Another few months without throwing away a perfectly good hat would help!
Got to agree that the whole thing seems insane. Do they deteriorate so badly that they are useless? Is a helmet bought 5 yrs ago with snell 2000 on it as weak as one bought in 2000? My helmet, a Bell, is looked after better than most children, has been used about 15 times since I got it in 2004 and may now be joining my other useless but immaculate helmet in the garage. I know there is the whole its your head etc thing but this makes no sense at all given the possible age difference of the same product. A bit like seatbelts that go out of date even sitting in their box!!

[brickkicker]

Originally Posted by simes43

Snell 2000 helmets will be OK to use until October 2010.

This delay will allow the manufacturers to be able to offer Snell 2010 units, with the correct tags/label

Simes43, I would be interested to know were you got this info from. Have had a look through motorsport now and cant see anything about it be withdrawn or nothing about it being permited till October. It would seem unusual to withdraw a standard part way through the season and not at the start of a year as per normal.