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Old 27 May 2000, 17:02 (Ref:6398)   #1
Franklin
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Even Top Fuel drag bikes have more horsepower (about 1,300) and at 243 mph are about as fast.

The list of aerodynamic design options NOT allowed in CART or IRL includes variable geometry ground effects tunnels, fan suction, suspension mounted wings, front wings higher than the tires, split flaps, and variable incidence wings.
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Old 28 May 2000, 09:37 (Ref:6399)   #2
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
A most un-Franklin like topic
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Old 30 May 2000, 13:35 (Ref:6400)   #3
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
What do Top Fuel drag bikes have to do with CART or the IRL. I love drag racing almost as much as circuit racing, but they are apples and oranges.

As far as your comment about Montoya and him driving a sprint car, I think he would acquit himself well. Sure, he'd never outrun a Kinser, Lasoski, or Swindell in sprinter but they would struggle just as well on a street course with his CART machine. I also believe that any of the top sprint car drivers would be able to drive a CART machine as well, just not nearly as fast as Montoya or any of the regulars, but then again, apples and oranges.
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Old 30 May 2000, 15:13 (Ref:6401)   #4
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So much for trying to let people read between the lines. The point was that when a MOTORCYCLE has more horsepower than any open wheel car and is just as fast it says something about the rampant timidity in open wheel thinking and design.
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Old 30 May 2000, 16:25 (Ref:6402)   #5
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
But would the racing be better if the IRL cars had eben capable of exceeding 300mph with 1300hp engines? Granted the IRL cars are a bit anemic as compared to CART machines, but there is a significant difference between running a 1300hp hand grenade for less than 7 secs and one running for over 3 hours near top rpm. Speed isn't all that racing has ever been about.
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Old 30 May 2000, 23:30 (Ref:6403)   #6
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
"The point was that when a MOTORCYCLE has more horsepower than any open wheel car and is just as fast it says something about the rampant timidity in open wheel thinking and design."
- Which do think would be easier to get going quickly??
Which has the best power to weight ratio?
Which is less aeordynamically sensitive?
Blah blah blah, im not going to waste any more of my time on you....
Seriously, for someone who can spell so well, you talk an awful lot of **** ....
Really, sit down and have a think about what you are typing BEFORE you hit the submit button...
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Old 31 May 2000, 03:32 (Ref:6404)   #7
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Here we go, trying to reason with Franklin one more time...

In addition to all the valid points in this thread made by posters who DIDN'T graduate from the Wile E. Coyote School of Engineering, let me add that when Mo Gugelmin ran over 240 mph at Fontana, Goodyear Tire were very emphatic that those speeds marked the safety limits for the current generation of racing tires, and that safety would be seriously compromised if speeds continued to increase.



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Old 31 May 2000, 10:48 (Ref:6405)   #8
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I'm afraid I'm going to have to step in an beat Franklin to this one...
Well then why doesn't Goodyear pull their fingers from their behinds and create a tire that can cope with the pressure??
Heck, those things at Bonville have steel wheels, why don't Cart use them??
I can see many advantages:
1. No need for tire changes
2. No need for tire changers -see less people being run over by Michael.
3. Less marbles -see lass crashes
4. Eliminate punctures
5. Guaranteed consistant quality
6. The cars could go at any speed imaginable while remaining cimpletely safe.
7. The process to make stell is much better for the environment.
8. Makes them more like trains -opens Cart up to a whole new audience of train enthusiasts.
9. Less chance of them landing in the granstands, they would go straight through them.
10. Encourage driver skills as there would be less grip.

Well since i have not gradusted from the university yet, i think i'll let Franklin complete the list...
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Old 31 May 2000, 13:04 (Ref:6406)   #9
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
You are comparing a drag car to a circuit racer. They only comparison is that both race. Why don't we let the dragbike team build a bike for Indy and then let a CART or IRL team build a car for the strip and see who is the fastest. I understand your point about how cheap it is to build a dragbike that will crush a CART car on a drag strip, but the depth of engineering and design goals used are at odds with each other. Its like you are comapring a Boeing 747 with a rocket. The airliner will never catch a rocket in a race but they do different jobs.
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Old 31 May 2000, 14:15 (Ref:6407)   #10
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Franklin should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The cost of the motorcycle IS NOT THE POINT.

The point is it's AN EIGHT HUNDRED POUND VEHICLE WITH THIRTEEN HUNDRED HORSEPOWER.

People who think a 1,500 pound car with 800 or 900 horsepower should automatically be considered a big deal ought to remember this is the year 2000, not 1969.

(P.S. to Crash Test -- The only cars at Bonneville that use steel wheels are the ones WITH tires.)
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Old 31 May 2000, 14:48 (Ref:6408)   #11
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Franklin, are you calling for UNLIMITED OPEN WHEEL CIRCUIT RACING?? Would not having wheels at all be illegal(limited)?
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Old 31 May 2000, 15:21 (Ref:6409)   #12
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KC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKC should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Well, if its a mine's bigger than yours thing, then lets go the full monty. Lets take a top fuel rail or top fuel drag boat. Both make in excess of 6000 hp and weigh around 1000 pounds. One is capable of 320mph on land while the other can exceed 240mph on water. Now that kind of mankes everything look anemic in comaprison. Why not take Shockely's Shockwave Jet truck, it produces more thrust than the space shuttle, it too can exceed 300mph on the drag strip. All of these machines I love, just like the CART machines or F1 machines or sports cars. They all fascinate me in their differences and the similarities. And then, take the Thrust SSC, it is the ultimate racing car EVER built. Does that diminish the efforts of Lola, Reynard, Dallara, or Van Diemen? No. Horses for courses.
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Old 31 May 2000, 23:41 (Ref:6413)   #13
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hello!! I think we have found out who Bernie E is!! Floid ol chap....well well well, who would have thought it was you?

I could see these races being indoors, although a problem would be dizzyness....
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Old 31 May 2000, 23:58 (Ref:6410)   #14
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Gees, thanks for pointing that out, you know, i'd really hate to make myself look like a ******** and get constantly picked on by everyone...

oh well...
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Old 1 Jun 2000, 05:29 (Ref:6411)   #15
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Hey while we are on the subject of bikes, what ever happened to Eddie Lawson after he left Galles?
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Old 1 Jun 2000, 09:37 (Ref:6412)   #16
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Franklin....You've had some nutty ideas but this time , I'm with you.
This has been my dream for some time now.
4 Tires
Unlimited powerplants
Figure Eight (with a bridge,silly)
No Spectators (safety) TV only

You can all laugh but ,What race fan wouldn't give money to see that ?
I know I would
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Old 2 Jun 2000, 04:32 (Ref:6414)   #17
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boltz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Heavy sigh,
Franklin, do you really think that F1/CART/IRL cars are at the limit of bhp for their displacement? No, they are not. Class regulations limit their horsepower. There has not been a "run what ya' brung" class in pro racing since Can Am. The cars are too fast with no limits. As a "safety boy" I thought you would have realized this.

Another point, how long do drag bikes have to stay together? Not 250-500 miles.

PS Your drag racer will go faster if you don't block airflow through the prop with the car.
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Old 2 Jun 2000, 21:05 (Ref:6415)   #18
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Just some FYI stuff I'd like to comment on. Derrick Walker took his car up to Michigan a few years back WITHOUT a pop-off valve to restrict the amt. of boost. The engine was producing over 1300 hp and the car was reaching 300 m.p.h. on the front stretch there. Just thought you'd like to know this.....

AR
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Old 2 Jun 2000, 22:19 (Ref:6416)   #19
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mapguy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Franklin:
Even Top Fuel drag bikes have more horsepower (about 1,300) and at 243 mph are about as fast.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes but by the time a CART engine has to be rebuilt a drag bike motor will have been rebuilt 2000 times.



[This message has been edited by mapguy (edited 02 June 2000).]
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Old 3 Jun 2000, 23:47 (Ref:6418)   #20
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Crash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridCrash Test should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Would it also be too dangerous for the flag marshals and the crew men? now that would be funny...

[This message has been edited by Crash Test (edited 05 June 2000).]
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Old 4 Jun 2000, 06:54 (Ref:6417)   #21
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Very interesting AndrettiRules. Thats the king of racing im talking about.
Bernie ?... NO Crashtest ! please BUT, at 300 miles an hour you cant have fans on the property.TOO DANGEROUS
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