[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by CTD

Hmm, this has happened the last 13 years...
Audi and Joest is exactly that. A Private team with a customer car and support.
The same with Oreca and Toyota. And even more true to what you mean Oreca and Peugeot and Pescarolo and Peugeot.

Very different with Joest and Audi, and Oreca and Toyota now - these are private teams hired by the factory, as opposed to the other way around. In effect, Audi/Toyota is their customer, not the reverse, which is what we tend to mean by 'customer car'.

Oreca/Pescarolo with Peugeot was a little different, they were leasing the car from Peugeot (at least in Pescarolo's case, not sure about Oreca's). Not sure if any money changed hands.

After writing that, I see your point and the Peugeot satellite teams are the murky area in between, but I wouldn't consider Joest/Oreca-Toyota entries as 'customer cars' (and nor does the ACO/FIA for their privateer trophy).

[Starfish Primer]

There was a Porsche 968 entry in the 90s too.

[FGE]

I remember a 928 also. But I´m not sure if this was a factorycar.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Dario911

I guess DHL may be one of the main sponsors in Porsche LMP1 program. It was very nice RS Spyder in yellow/red livery with DHL logos. During his winning LMP2 adventure with Porsche, Penske said he would have loved come back in Le Mans with a P1, racing to win the first place overall. I wish he may be involved since 2015 as customer team, to face other manufacturer teams. Penske and Joest had some great challenges in ALMS with RS Spyder and R10 TDI, so it would be very nice to see them fight one each other in P1. Penske tried to win Le Mans in 1970 and 1971 with Ferrari, but he never gained his beloved race. Porsche may help him with new P1 to be one of the star of the match in next years? I hope yes, it would be nice to see a private team racing to win Le Mans, although with a customer car.
Oh, and DHL livery.......

I doubt Penske will race a car outside of NA, except for Le Mans. If P1s aren't part of USCR, then Penske won't be getting a Porsche P1.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Salamus

I doubt Penske will race a car outside of NA, except for Le Mans. If P1s aren't part of USCR, then Penske won't be getting a Porsche P1.

You are probably right but I wonder if Penske wouldn't invest a few years in such a project since winning Le Mans has been one of the goals he has never accomplished. He is getting up there in age (he is 76) and this might be his last chance. Also, Porsche has had great success with either Penske or Joest managing their teams. Joest appears unavailable so that leaves Penske. Joest and Penske are two real contemporaries, both were born in 1937 (Joest in April and Penske in February),their racing carreers overlapped and both became first rate racing team managers. I'm guessing that if Porsche comes up with the right amount of money, Penske would seriously consider taking on the challenge. He loves to keep busy and he loves this type of challenge.

DK

[deggis]

Ullrich & Vasselon downplaying the early test:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108488

[Spyderman]

I see no controversy. They are absolutely correct. Porsche are indeed starting from zero, and has a LOT of work ahead.

[deggis]

Regarding Penske, old links:

March 2013: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...s-car-options/

It’s known that discussions between Penske and Porsche were held regarding the new P1 car, but when the German marque underwent a management shakeup late last year, assigning ex-BMW F1 man Fritz Enzinger as its ‘LMP1 project head,’ the conversation shifted towards fielding a full works team from its European base.

Sept 2012: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120910/ALMS/120919979

Will there be an American team, perhaps an association with Roger Penske as in the recent past, for example?

Matthias Mueller: For the LMP1? No.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Very different with Joest and Audi, and Oreca and Toyota now - these are private teams hired by the factory, as opposed to the other way around. In effect, Audi/Toyota is their customer, not the reverse, which is what we tend to mean by 'customer car'.

Oreca/Pescarolo with Peugeot was a little different, they were leasing the car from Peugeot (at least in Pescarolo's case, not sure about Oreca's). Not sure if any money changed hands.

After writing that, I see your point and the Peugeot satellite teams are the murky area in between, but I wouldn't consider Joest/Oreca-Toyota entries as 'customer cars' (and nor does the ACO/FIA for their privateer trophy).

You have perfectly summed up what I meant!

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by deggis

Regarding Penske, old links:

March 2013: http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...s-car-options/


Sept 2012: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120910/ALMS/120919979

We don't have to forget they've denied Webber involvement in P1 up to the last day!

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I see no controversy. They are absolutely correct. Porsche are indeed starting from zero, and has a LOT of work ahead.

neither. Toyota had a similar time period before the original Ts030 hit spa

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Oreca/Pescarolo with Peugeot was a little different, they were leasing the car from Peugeot (at least in Pescarolo's case, not sure about Oreca's). Not sure if any money changed hands.

It certainly did in Pescarolo's case after Treluyer rolled the car into a small ball. Apparently that's what got Pescarolo into the initial financial problems that finally led to the closure of the team.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

It certainly did in Pescarolo's case after Treluyer rolled the car into a small ball. Apparently that's what got Pescarolo into the initial financial problems that finally led to the closure of the team.

IIRC there was an issue with insurance as well after the incident that didn't help matters? I can still remember watching LM2009 live when I was suffering from food poisoning, the Treluyer incident was a biggie. Car snapped sideways on the bump where the Esses join the Bugatti circuit and the rest is history.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

IIRC there was an issue with insurance as well after the incident that didn't help matters?

If I remember correctly the issue was that there wasn't any, which became a problem when Peugeot presented Henri with a rather large bill for the damage.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

After writing that, I see your point and the Peugeot satellite teams are the murky area in between, but I wouldn't consider Joest/Oreca-Toyota entries as 'customer cars' (and nor does the ACO/FIA for their privateer trophy).

What about the R10s run by Kolles?

[Spyderman]

Please accept my most sincere apologies for bringing this thread back on topic (kind of), but I found it interesting that Manthey himself asked Porsche for the following driver line-up for their (Manthey) privateer basis entry in the 24h Spa.
Lieb
Lietz
Pilet.

Will one of these be selected to run in the LMP1 program? Lets see.

[Maelochs]

I know nothing but I'd guess Porsche would want this highly successful crew in the 911 ... These are arguably Porsche's best GT drivers, and I am sure they want good results in GT as well as P1.

Okay ... Business done. Let's get back off-topic now.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Will one of these be selected to run in the LMP1 program? Lets see.

I'll hazard a guess that Porsche would need Lieb as a development driver for 991 GT3 RSR.

Assuming they are to field 2 LMP1 cars they now have 4/6 drivers. Dumas, Bernhard, Webber, Jani... I see Luhr joining this line-up. But why hasn't he been announced yet? I suppose there are negotiations with couple of bigger names (Heidfeld?) or perhaps some younger prospects being actively lured (or Luhred?) away from single-seater career.

[Spyderman]

I agree. Lieb Looks to stay with RSR program. I suspect Lietz will accompany him. Pilet on the other hand.....

[Articus]

I don't think drivers will be a weakness in the Porsche effort net year...Nothing short of the best. If they are not right at the top we'll know the car alone isn't fast enough.

[gaaaazFR]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I agree. Lieb Looks to stay with RSR program. I suspect Lietz will accompany him. Pilet on the other hand.....

Good point Spyderman, the Manthey 'private' line-up for Spa looks like the dream-team into the Porsche factory drivers...

I guess Porsche might want them in the LMP1, and on the other one the engineering GT team might want to keep them as well... They should ask the drivers want they want, maybe some of them will chose to stay in the 991 RSR??

Seriously, I think the key of this will be their 991 RSR 2014 program: USCR with 1 or 2 cars? WEC with 1 or 2 cars? (depending on that Porsche will have -or not- enough drivers for their GT program...)

My guess is 1 in USCR and 2 in WEC wich make us 6 GT drivers :
Long - Bergmeister - Holzer - Tandy + 1 or 2 new guys (Kristensen for example)

That will let us 2 top guys to switch from GT to LMP : Pilet & Lieb for example

What seems to be clear is the following fact : if a driver is involved in the GT program he won't drive the LMP1, and an LMP1 guy won't go racing in GT (except for Daytona maybe...)

[Simmi]

I don't really get the Luhr link? I don't see it. Better candidates out there for me.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I don't really get the Luhr link? I don't see it. Better candidates out there for me.

And he's been a hired hand now for years, popping up everywhere that a drive has been available in prototypes/GTE/VLN. The Porsche connection has been gone for a few years now.

[Rennen]

Originally Posted by Articus

I don't think drivers will be a weakness in the Porsche effort net year...Nothing short of the best. If they are not right at the top we'll know the car alone isn't fast enough.

Peugoet and TMG preferance was/is drivers whom are used to driving 10 Tenths, so tend to choose ex F1 drivers.

[Articus]

Luhr is german, former Porsche factory driver. ALMS GT2, P2, P1 champion. He is very rapid in the Muscle Milk HPD. Easy fit in my eyes.

I don't really see any better fit drivers who have P1 experience and can set the pace and win...Luhr is just as good as the best Toyota and Audi guys.