Driver Alonso or Vettel. The drivers have their say. - Page 5

Paradise City · 31 Dec 2013, 18:49 (Ref:3349267)

Schumacher is like Napoleon. Loved and hated but whether you loved or hated him he is always a legend, his feats of sporting generalship was astonishing. He looms over the history of our sport much like Napoleon- although Schumacher left the sport successful.

What's Vettel? A very good hoodie who got lucky, was whisked into a Neweymobile and worked the people to make his political position invulnerable within the team. Unfair? Maybe. But there's no definitive argument that refutes that either - unless Vettel springs forth and flourishes outside of his comfortzone.

Catingaround · 31 Dec 2013, 18:53 (Ref:3349271)

Oh my.

**Aysedasi** · 31 Dec 2013, 18:55 (Ref:3349275)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

Terry Fullerton had the measure of him.

Initially.

Although what that has to do with Alonso and Vettel I haven't the foggiest idea.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

What's Vettel? A very good hoodie who got lucky, was whisked into a Neweymobile and worked the people to make his political position invulnerable within the team. Unfair? Maybe. But there's no definitive argument that refutes that either - unless Vettel springs forth and flourishes outside of his comfortzone.

Not sure even I'd go that far.........

davyboy · 31 Dec 2013, 19:03 (Ref:3349283)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Although what that has to do with Alonso and Vettel I haven't the foggiest idea.........

god knows, apparently

davyboy · 31 Dec 2013, 19:04 (Ref:3349284)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catingaround

Oh my.

Indeed...

Mr V · 31 Dec 2013, 19:31 (Ref:3349296)

It's quite interesting that Vettel can only win in the best car, yet when Alonso (and Hamilton for that matter) had the best car in 2007, they couldn't win it.

Knowlesy · 31 Dec 2013, 20:00 (Ref:3349302)

Debatable whether that was the best car, the Ferrari was incredible. The advantage between the two teams swung each weekend. Kerby, twisty tracks suited the supple McLaren. Fast, sweeping aero circuits favoured the Ferrari.

Not to mention three top drivers (and a handy fourth) in cars of similar pace. As opposed to, err, one.

Anyways, I am pretty sure Vettel would rack up the odd win in an inferior car. He obviously has the talent. It is just we don't get to see it yet.

davyboy · 31 Dec 2013, 20:24 (Ref:3349306)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Anyways, I am pretty sure Vettel would rack up the odd win in an inferior car. He obviously has the talent. It is just we don't get to see it yet.

There's a Specsavers punchline in there somewhere

**Aysedasi** · 31 Dec 2013, 20:42 (Ref:3349313)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

It's quite interesting that Vettel can only win in the best car, yet when Alonso (and Hamilton for that matter) had the best car in 2007, they couldn't win it.

.....and round.....and round......

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

There's a Specsavers punchline in there somewhere

For some, perhaps.

The bottom line is that there comes a time when there is no point continuing to preach to the yet-to-be converted......

wnut · 1 Jan 2014, 02:02 (Ref:3349349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

It's quite interesting that Vettel can only win in the best car, yet when Alonso (and Hamilton for that matter) had the best car in 2007, they couldn't win it.

It is a great pity that Webber did not go to Ferrari!

I think that would have put everything into perspective quite nicely.

Hingo · 1 Jan 2014, 06:43 (Ref:3349370)

The problem with Alonso in 2007 is that he was too focused on beating Hamilton. McLaren as a whole were too focused on it as well with both sides of the garage not talking to each other and it allowed Kimi to slip by. Man I loved that rivalry but they sure blew it.

Mr V · 1 Jan 2014, 10:56 (Ref:3349405)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

.....and round.....and round

Like a stuck record, on both sides of the fence !

davyboy · 1 Jan 2014, 13:05 (Ref:3349428)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Like a stuck record, on both sides of the fence !

Agreed... time [for me] to move on I think... well at least for the moment.

**Aysedasi** · 1 Jan 2014, 14:29 (Ref:3349440)

Yep, little more to see here, I suspect - until the start of next season!

Zico · 4 Jan 2014, 01:59 (Ref:3350224)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Schumacher is like Napoleon. Loved and hated but whether you loved or hated him he is always a legend, his feats of sporting generalship was astonishing. He looms over the history of our sport much like Napoleon- although Schumacher left the sport successful.

What's Vettel? A very good hoodie who got lucky, was whisked into a Neweymobile and worked the people to make his political position invulnerable within the team. Unfair? Maybe. But there's no definitive argument that refutes that either - unless Vettel springs forth and flourishes outside of his comfortzone.

Very true. I never was Mikes biggest fan but he is a huge F1 legend and the difference is that there never was any real doubt about that.
Watching the old guy taking provisional pole at Monaco in 2012, a circuit which is widely acknowleged by most to be a great car equalizer, was an amazing thing to see. Sure he had a point to prove but at his age... what a way to prove he still had the speed.
Get well soon Mike

Yes, lets see how Vettel copes if/when out of his comfort zone.. that will show us where is really at.

Pingguest · 4 Jan 2014, 15:19 (Ref:3350341)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Schumacher is like Napoleon. Loved and hated but whether you loved or hated him he is always a legend, his feats of sporting generalship was astonishing. He looms over the history of our sport much like Napoleon- although Schumacher left the sport successful.

I agree. Michael Schumacher was loved and hated among fans, although I think he gained a lot popularity during his 'second' career. It seems people appreciated his courage he showed by returning into the sport. And although he did not win any race in his second career, I do think his comeback was more successful than it looks: last year Ross Brawn said that Schuamcher's input paid off in 2013.

davyboy · 10 Jan 2014, 09:11 (Ref:3352323)

This isn't quite a smoking gun, more Filipe Massa's opinion, but at some point or other the truth will surface. If it turns out that Alonso was complicit in this, something far more serious than the multi-21 shenanigans, I wonder will people look at Alonso in a different light.

Article here.

henners88 · 10 Jan 2014, 09:25 (Ref:3352329)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

It's quite interesting that Vettel can only win in the best car, yet when Alonso (and Hamilton for that matter) had the best car in 2007, they couldn't win it.

Two team mates on a par in terms of talent and a few other political things going on is very different from a driver sat in the best car with the teams full support behind him and a team mate struggling to match him for pace. Plus it was only extremely poor luck that Lewis didn't win in 2007 really. The fact he didn't win the championship in his début season seems to be bounded around like he bottled it, but in reality it was an extremely impressive rookie season under very difficult circumstances.

Vettel is a brilliant driver in an environment that supports his campaign. He's had that now for 4 consecutive years and any driver on the grid would kill for that kind of support. I can't fault Vettel and his ability to maximise what he has at his disposal, but I also can't say he is a cut above the rest because he's in a unique situation none of his closest rivals are lucky enough to find themselves in. You could argue Alonso is as Ferrari up until 2014 has very much had his back.

**Bononi** · 10 Jan 2014, 15:17 (Ref:3352448)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

This isn't quite a smoking gun, more Filipe Massa's opinion, but at some point or other the truth will surface. If it turns out that Alonso was complicit in this, something far more serious than the multi-21 shenanigans, I wonder will people look at Alonso in a different light.

Article here.

The point is, when Massa has said that ? I didn't see anywhere else and the article doesn't mention it. Did he say this lately ?

**Aysedasi** · 10 Jan 2014, 15:40 (Ref:3352464)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

This isn't quite a smoking gun, more Filipe Massa's opinion, but at some point or other the truth will surface. If it turns out that Alonso was complicit in this, something far more serious than the multi-21 shenanigans, I wonder will people look at Alonso in a different light.

Article here.

Not more Massa's opinion surely - totally Massa's opinion as far as I can see from that.......

fourWheelDrift · 10 Jan 2014, 16:46 (Ref:3352488)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not more Massa's opinion surely - totally Massa's opinion as far as I can see from that.......

As it happens I share Massa's opinion but let's be honest the journalist is just muck raking for the sake of inventing a story.

davyboy · 10 Jan 2014, 16:50 (Ref:3352489)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

The point is, when Massa has said that ? I didn't see anywhere else and the article doesn't mention it. Did he say this lately ?

I have no idea when he said this... my eyes are no better than yours at seeing behind that article

Seriously though, Massa has been doing the rounds with the press these last few weeks. He gave a 'warts and all' in depth interview to Autosport and discussed all sorts of things. The article also mentions that he plans to discuss the issue with Pat Symonds when he has his feet under the table at Williams. These would lead me to think he said it relatively recently.

... but as I said in my note, this is Massa's opinion.

**Bononi** · 10 Jan 2014, 17:49 (Ref:3352510)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

I have no idea when he said this... my eyes are no better than yours at seeing behind that article

Seriously though, Massa has been doing the rounds with the press these last few weeks. He gave a 'warts and all' in depth interview to Autosport and discussed all sorts of things. The article also mentions that he plans to discuss the issue with Pat Symonds when he has his feet under the table at Williams. These would lead me to think he said it relatively recently.

... but as I said in my note, this is Massa's opinion.

Uhn... yeah, Autosport. I guess it's more of a response to a well-thought question to get the right answer.

321Go · 10 Jan 2014, 23:57 (Ref:3352653)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

The point is, when Massa has said that ? I didn't see anywhere else and the article doesn't mention it. Did he say this lately ?

Didn't Massa say that about Alonso knowing way back in 2009? Rehashed rubbish. And the article by F1spy even says so.

Quote:

In 2009 when the story surfaced, Massa stated, 'It was the team and Nelson....but Alonso was part of the problem. He knew. We cannot know it of course he knew. (It's an) absolute certainty.

Sebastian Vettel fans...

They don't get it do they?

321Go · 11 Jan 2014, 00:02 (Ref:3352655)

Quote:

Originally Posted by davyboy

He gave a 'warts and all' in depth interview to Autosport and discussed all sorts of things.

Any links to this 'warts and all' interview? Doesn't seem to exist.

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