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Old 1 May 2008, 11:08 (Ref:2191712)   #1
numbersix
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When is a marshal not a marshal?

...When he/she is an official. But what's an official?

I cannot find any definition of an official in the blue book or any sense whatsoever on the MSA site. The BB refers, in various places, to officials and marshals, and certain jobs like timekeepers I know are always called officials.

There is an officials' section on the MSA site but no definition and yet I'm sure I've seen Chief Marshals posted as Officials in sign-on correspondence and I would have thought that Post Chiefs, certainly Examining Post Chiefs would be regarded as Officials.
So, what's an official?
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Old 1 May 2008, 11:39 (Ref:2191735)   #2
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The STIG should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Confused?
The question is, is a marshal an official? and if a marshal is an official, then is that marshal an official marshal...

I'll go now.
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Old 1 May 2008, 12:29 (Ref:2191770)   #3
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Justin Moran should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridJustin Moran should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I had the auspicious job of Stewards runner for the ACO/MSA at last years LMS at Silverstone, I was signed on as a marshal but was included as an official(still didnt get a shirt though!)
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Old 1 May 2008, 13:24 (Ref:2191825)   #4
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chezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridchezza should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Officials...the clerks, deputy clerks, sec of the meeting, MSA steward, club stewards, time keepers...
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Old 1 May 2008, 14:53 (Ref:2191891)   #5
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Stack should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezza
Officials...the clerks, deputy clerks, sec of the meeting, MSA steward, club stewards, time keepers...

Would that be the ones that get paid......
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Old 1 May 2008, 15:30 (Ref:2191917)   #6
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Don't take the wrong way but who cares?

I doubt if the MSA has ever worked out a formal definition but official usually seems to equate to those holding a defined office, as opposed to a generic job. So Clerk of the course/rescue crew for one of each sort. And yes, I know that there are examples where this does not hold good. See the first sentence.

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Old 1 May 2008, 15:31 (Ref:2191919)   #7
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by Stack
Would that be the ones that get paid......
No

Jim
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Old 1 May 2008, 15:46 (Ref:2191927)   #8
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Peter Harding should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The sign-on form is headed "Officials' sign-on" so that makes marshals officials. I am sure somewhere else it will contradict me.
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Old 1 May 2008, 15:48 (Ref:2191929)   #9
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gachjoel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridgachjoel should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I see everyone as an official.

i`m officially a Fire/Incident Marshal
----"---"----" Flag Marshal
----"---"---- an I/O
ect ect !!!!!!!!
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Old 1 May 2008, 17:18 (Ref:2191987)   #10
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Piglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPiglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridPiglet should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Harding
The sign-on form is headed "Officials' sign-on" so that makes marshals officials. I am sure somewhere else it will contradict me.
I'd agree with that, all marshals are officials of the meeting but I'm not really sure it's a subject to get worked up about!

.....and no, race admin, race control etc. don't get usually get paid unless it happens to be their day job....don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone who wears a shirt is "staff".
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Old 1 May 2008, 17:30 (Ref:2191995)   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimW
... who cares?

Jim
I do. "The irrational pursuit of knowledge for its own sake."

Also, I noticed this sentence in section C[d] 9 of the Gospel according to Alan Gow:

"• General Conduct – Abuse, assault or threats of
either. Refusal to obey the instructions of an Official."

I was just wondering if a driver was obliged by this ruling to obey the instructions of a marshal?

You can see my train of thought and the fact that I don't have a life.
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Old 1 May 2008, 17:48 (Ref:2192007)   #12
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JimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJimW should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by numbersix
I do. "The irrational pursuit of knowledge for its own sake."
Oh yes, I do that. The difference is that I try not to care about it.

Quote:
Also, I noticed this sentence in section C[d] 9 of the Gospel according to Alan Gow:

"• General Conduct – Abuse, assault or threats of
either. Refusal to obey the instructions of an Official."

I was just wondering if a driver was obliged by this ruling to obey the instructions of a marshal?
Good point. A little further searching of the Blue Book still gives no formal definition. However:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB Part 1, p16
In addition to licensing 34,000 competitors (many of whom will have attended approved driver training schools), the MSA has over 2,700 licensed officials and over 10,000 registered marshals on its database.
So my example of rescue crew above is wrong as we are licensed, not registered.

Regards

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Old 1 May 2008, 18:04 (Ref:2192015)   #13
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Hmm. Licensed persons are issued with annual licences, are they not? Name-tags and stuff like that.
Marshals are registered. Does that mean that a driver is not obliged to obey the instructions of a marshal, I wonder?

And no, I don't care, really. Just inquisitive.
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Old 1 May 2008, 18:21 (Ref:2192024)   #14
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I think Peter and Piglet have got a handle on this. "Officials of the meeting." Yes. Think that wraps it up. Sorted.
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Old 1 May 2008, 20:26 (Ref:2192105)   #15
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ALANGRUMPY should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So what is a Senior Official?

Is it someone who sits at the back of race control, smelling of booze, babbling and breaking wind
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