De Cadenet Lolas

[driftwood]

probably better to paste copy xl file onto word document to see how it looks then u can adjust to fit here

[pinguino]

Just to add to the confusion here are a few snippets.

I bought the Belga Car from Alain de Cadenet in 1985. My purchase was brokered by Chris Crawford of ADA Engineering. it was fitted with DFV 066 which together with DFV 928 shared the most Cosworth victories. Engine went Tyrrell then Chequered Flag then De Cad and sports car specced by John Nicholson. I do not remember the car having a chassis plate and we always referred to it as the De Cadenet LM. I kept one set of bodywork in Belga Colours and Charles Ivey Ltd painted the spare set red. I entered it at a Thruxton Thundersports race in 1985 for Bill Wykeham/Ian Harrower and the car was 'not' quick plus we had fuel vaporisation problems. A few weeks later, I entered the car for another T/Sports race. This time at Brands Club for Richard Jones (he had driven it at Le Mans) and I think the other driver was Sam Cleps. The car could barely break the 50 sec barrier on the club circuit. It finally dawned on me that it was designed for the Mulsanne straight was obviously going to be useless for T/Sports so I never raced it again. I sold the car a few years later to Martin Birrane having removed DFV066 which went into my Mclaren M23. I can say that the LM had a highly detailed notebook written by De Cad which I no longer have but the tub was designed by Gordon Murray and the corners where Lola T280 ( I had the spare corners and wheels until recently)
The only other info I can think of regarding the De Cad cars is that the Duckhams used the corners from a Brabham BT33 (I think 33/2, anyway the one in Donnington) ex C Craft and that one of the De Cads became the basis of ADA 01 otherwise known as the 'Morris Minor'. This horrendous looking car went to Switzerland.
Colin Pool

[driftwood]

Martin birrane ran the car at classic LM this weekend
it must have been depressing to see a LM car do 50 secs around Brands indy that would have put u on 2nd or 3rd row of the grid in a ff1600 race !!
ironically i bought a 10 x 8 foto of this car 2 weeks ago at a book shop

[AMICALEMANS]

i am glad to read pinguino about the Belga livery car. I saw the car at Le Mans Classic, and the chassi plate is GLC 913 !
I think that it is for Gordon Len and CadenET, but why 913 ?

I try to know how many De Cadenet with Lola Corners (mean suspension ?, sorry but i am french) was build.

I opened a french topic about Lola and De Cadenet on http://forums.motorlegend.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27067
and some guys put nice pictures.

my thinking is now :
Alain De Cadenet built the Duckams wich become the 74 De Cadenet et become later the "Morris Minor".

He built 2 ADC cars :
The GLC 913 wich i suppose was ADC 77 and is now the Belga Car.
The ADC 78, and i believe this car become the first Ecosse and was destroyed in a crash.

So the mistery is now about the Lola HU01 De Cadenet, i believe this car was the BAT car then the Fisons car ; where HU01 is now ?

Could you help me ?

Thanks

[driftwood]

my thinking is now :
Alain De Cadenet built the Duckams wich become the 74 De Cadenet et become later the "Morris Minor".this car was the LM race car sold to uk race driver and had VW Variant body fitted raced in Special saloons in 75 & 76 car now restored back to LM sports car today

He built 2 ADC cars : he bought in 1975 Lola T380 HU1 this car was raced at LM
car was sold to Dorset racing for 1976 LM De Cad built new car with Thompson chassis and Lola corners LM2 ?
Dorset ran the T380 HU1 car until 1981
in 78 De cad build sanother car LM3 ? same way as he did for the LM2 car thompson tub lola corners
it is believed he needed NEW car each year to get LM entry
He built 1 more car LM4 race dthat then sold 1 car to Martin Bros and they bought a 2nd car from De Cad to end up with 2 cars
The GLC 913 wich i suppose was ADC 77 and is now the Belga Car.no
The ADC 78, and i believe this car become the first Ecosse and was destroyed in a crash.the car was not the 1st Ecurie Ecoss Group C car

So the mistery is now about the Lola HU01 De Cadenet, i believe this car was the BAT car then the Fisons car ; where HU01 is now ?HU2 is still in italy restored and running
HU1 is now in a collection in scandanavia

Could you help me ?

[AMICALEMANS]

Sorry, but i believe that http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory is wrong about De Cadenet.

i am happy that you confirm about the Minor

But in 78 and 79, 3 cars was entered with a Lola T380 body look
I am sure that the Bat then the Fisons was the HU01 Lola (i had a look at the ACO files)

"it is believed he needed NEW car each year to get LM entry"
Why he needed NEW car ? ACO never ask for that !
De Cadenet was not so rich to do it !


So that's mean that De Cadenet built 2 cars (ADC 77 and ADC 78) one of this car is the Belga car (Pinguino's car ! martin Birrane ran it at Le Mans Classic 2006, the chassis plate is GLC 913).

i heard that the first Ecosse Group C was based upon a De Cadenet and was destroyed in a crash in 1988.

so i believe :

LM1 : Duckams become Morris Minor
LM2 : ADC 77 (GLC 913 ?)
LM3 : ADC 78 become the first Ecosse Group C

LM4 : do not exist (i never see on ACO files an ADC 76, in 75 and 76 it was the Lola HU01, who was sold and become the Bat car then the Fisons cars. Now in scandinavia ? any picture ?

(some ACO files spoke about the T281 SG for the White with a red cross car , and named the FISONS car a T286) It's a mistake.

[AMICALEMANS]

If you speak or read a little bit french read :
http://www.sportscaruniverse.com/Spo...seC284ford.htm

It is not me !

[allenbrown]

LM4 was the designation given to the British Post Office sponsored car that De Cad drove in Can-Am in 1978.

Also, the Ecosse C284 was built around "ex-Dorset Racing tub ADC78/1" (according to Briggs p304).

Allen

[allenbrown]

I agree there may be things not yet completely right on that geocities page but there must have been a LM4. In 1978, LM2 was the #12 Batcar, LM3 was the #9 Cooper/Lovett/Evans car so the #8 De Cad/Craft must have been new.

[driftwood]

Crude translation

In 1982, Hugh McCaig associates itself with the journalist Graham Gauld to reform the prestigious Ecurie Scotland, returned if famous by its victories to the Mans in the years 50 with typical Jaguars C and D.

Their objective is to construct a prototype replying to the category C Junior of the endurance World Championship.

For this done McCaig does the acquisition of a chassis (the n° ADC78/1 former dorset Racing) of an old one of Cadenet Lola Groups 6 that Ray Mallock, implied since the beginning in the project, modifies according to its own drawings. Provided with a flat bottom the monocoque is realized in the workshops of the firm TC Prototypes of John Thompson to Northampton, Great Britain. And to propel the C284, McCaig carries his choice on the V8 Ford Cosworth DFV 3,0 conceived liters for the F1 and of which the preparation is reserved to the structure Swindon Engines of John Dunn.

Despite a chassis of which the conception begins dating seriously, the C284 proves itself both reliable and quick in speed of not at all.
The beginnings in chases Scotland Read Ecosse)take place at Monza, in 1984, where Dave Dudfield and Mike Wilds finish second in Junior C.

To Silverstone, Dudfield and Wilds, rejoined by David Leslie, are constrained to the abandonment because of a clutch broken.

In the Sarthe, the C284-Cosworth, to the hands of Mike Wilds, Leslie and Dudfield, withdraws itself to the end of six hours of race on a gasoline failure.

Left to do a comprehends in the British series Thundersports to Brands Hatch the car is destroyed in an accident.

McCaig dismantles it in spare parts that will serve to the construction of the C285.

[AMICALEMANS]

Whart do you think of this explanation :



LM1 : Duckams become Morris Minor and the DFVW
LM2 : Is the Lola who ran LeMans in 75 and 76 with De Cadenet and the become the Bat then the Fisons
LM3 : ADC 77 (GLC 913 ?) The Belga car
LM4 : ADC 78 become the first Ecosse Group C

I will post later a complete history in Le Mans of these cars...

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by driftwood

Crude translation...

That's the text of the Briggs book. Page 304. I wonder which came first

[driftwood]

The T380 hu 1 car did not run the standard body work
That car was sold to Dorset racing for 77 then the car went to Phillips Raymond car now in private collection
T380 hu2 is in italy restored and with original bodywork

I was told on "good" authority that de Cad sold 1 car to to Martin bros then built another car from his pile of spares and later sold that to Martin Bros
I do not know where this car is now

So if LM4 was written off that leaves only 1 de cad car 1 lola t 380 and the Duckhams cars left
i think the fotos of the LM2 34 cars need to be together to see if the written off car was lm3 or 4
Birrane runs his car as LM4

[allenbrown]

Sorry Drifty, that doesn't fit either.

Colin said he bought the Belga car from De Cad in 1985 and that's the one Birrane has now. The geocites site calls that LM4 and that fits my understanding of it. However, the Dorset Racing car that became the Ecosse is said to have had tub ADC78/1. That means ADC78/1 can't have been LM4. Also, if you know where the Philips/Raymond car is now, that can't be the car that became the Ecosse.

I think someone needs to go back to basics on the lives of LM2, LM3, LM4 and this possible fourth car and get their race histories and early ownership histories straight. Without that solid starting point, we're just going round in circles.

Allen

[driftwood]

http://www.geocities.com/lolahistory/
go into the Group 6 section then click on flag under Lola T380 cars
I think some of the fotos are not in the correct place
also the comment re ADA car being T290 390 based i think is not correct that car was crashed in europe somewhere ( ADA man told me this)
driven by an eastern European owner
Yes Allen yr right each car needs a listing
as i have the body of the dorset car as per the foto BH 6 hr race less the large white circular stickers we can poss assume the car is LM3 that was converted to the 1st ecosse ( was the tub / car then totally binned? )as LM4 is the Belga Birrane ex Pool car
did u look at the fotos i sent to you?

Do u think LM3 and LM4 bodies are the same?
If my body is LM3 that explains why the car is not around and i have the bodywork

the t380-390 thread is here as well for reference
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77985

[AMICALEMANS]

So folks, I am agree with you…

LM1 is the Duckhams ! and was not a Lola, but a Gordon Murray’s based on a BT33. The car ran Le Mans in 72 and 73 as a Duckhams then in 1974 as a green De Cadenet. Some people think it became the Colin Hawker DFVW in 1975 with a VW Variant Body shell. I am sure that it is correct.

LM2 is believed to be the T380 HU01 ran by De Cadenet at Le mans in 75 with a nearly standart body work (number 4) and then modified in 76 to run Le Mans (number 12); the car had a bulb nose.
In 77, the car sold to Dorset Racing, but with a Alain De Cadenet entry fail to qualify (number 6) had still a bulb nose. Tony Birchenough from the Dorset was at the wheel with Simon Philips.
In 78, the car was entered as a De Cadenet Lola T380 by Simon Philips. It was yhe Bat Car still with a bulb nose, with Martin raymondat the wheel.
In 79, the car was entered as a Lola T286 (!!!!!!) still with a bulb nose, by Fison Agricole - Simon Phillip.
So for this car , I think that common point is the bulb nose, lola, dorset racing and simon Philips. After that, the car disappear and you told me that the car is now in Scandinavia.

LM3 is believed to be ADC77/01 built by Alain De Cadenet with Lola corners ?
It appears in Le Mans as number 5 in 1977.
In 78, three cas was entered, so one of them was a new one (LM2, LM3 and the new LM4).
LM2 was the Bat Car.
LM3 and LM4 was entered by Alain De Cadenet himself.
Number 8 for him and Craft (ACO said De Cadenet Lola T380 !, ADC said De Cadenet Lola 76/77 !)
Number 9 for Cooper Lovett Evans (ACO said De Cadenet Lola LM ! ADC said De Cadenet Lola 75/77) who fail to qualify.
Who cheat ?
So LM4 was ADC78/01 ! but we don’t know if Alain take the new car for him.

In 1979, also three cars :
LM2 is the Fisons car (number 15)
John Cooper Racing entered a Lola T281 SG (number 3) for him and Lovett and Morrison. I think that it the same car than in 1978. The car was white with a big red cross.
T281 does not exist as a Lola, SG mean St Georges ? (ACO guys are stupid !)
Alain entered the number 8 as De Cadenet LM
Wich one is LM3 and Wich one is LM4.

In 1980 : two cars.
Alain entered the De Cadenet LM number 8 (I suppose the same car than the previous year)
Nick Faure entered a De Cadenet LM number 11 for him Jones and De Dryiver. This car was white a red and blue stripe. But did not qualify.

In 1981 : two cars
Alain entered the number 20 with Belga livery (Murry Smith , the team manager for the car (?) ) said it was a car from 78 named De Cadenet LM, ACO also it’s a De Cadenet LM !) The car had a 3300 DFV for testing only. I think it the same car than in 1980. I hope that this car is the Martin Biranne car I saw at Le Mans Classic 2006, with a chassis dataplate GLC 913.
G for Gordon Murray
L for Len Bailey or Lola (Lola suspension)?
C for Cadenet ?
913 (what is this number for ?)
I think this car is LM4 or ADC78/01. That means that Alain used the new car back in 1978 !

Dorset Racing entered the number 21 for Faure, Candy, Birranne. The car had a 3000 DFV and was known as a De Cadenet Lola T380 #T380-HU1-=>LM-2 at Brands Hatch 1000 km (according to Rracing Sports Cars) and De Cadenet LM for ACO ! and Number 23 in DRM Zolder 1982.
We should ask lola@dorset-racing.com to know what was this car is ! LM2, LM3 or LM4 ?
I think because of Faure, it was the ex-Cooper car.

So wich car become the first Ecosse Group C ? LM3 or LM4 ? According to Sportscaruniverse, it was ADC78/01 :
“In 1982, Hugh McCaig associates itself with the journalist Graham Gauld to reform the prestigious Ecurie Scotland, returned if famous by its victories to the Mans in the years 50 with typical Jaguars C and D. For this done McCaig does the acquisition of a chassis (the n° ADC78/1 former dorset Racing) of an old one of Cadenet Lola Groups 6 that Ray Mallock, implied since the beginning in the project, modifies according to its own drawings. Provided with a flat bottom the monocoque is realized in the workshops of the firm TC Prototypes of John Thompson to Northampton, Great Britain.
And Ray Mallock confirm on his website :“The second project being undertaken was for a group of Scottish businessmen who had re-launched the famous Ecurie Ecosse team. Based upon a de Cadenet chassis RML developed the car to accept a completely new bodywork package, a shape that would be familiar in sportscar racing throughout the eighties.” But he don’t told us which De Cadenet it is. Confusing is possible because Mallock drove the Fisons car in Le Mans 1979 and it was a Dorset car !
The car was totally destroyed in a crash.
So the Ecosse could be a Dorset car or a ADC78/01. Yes we should ask Dorset Racing, if they remember, if they purchased the LM2 T380, the LM3 ADC77/01 or LM4 ADC78/01

The only thing that we are sure is that there is only two De Cadenet still existing :
The LM1 Duckams and the Martin Birrane’s car (GLC 913)


About the ADA Minor :
People think that the ADA minor has no common point with De Cadenet, except the nose ! The car is believed built bye Cris Crawford based upon a T290. The name De Cadenet Lola was use in Le Mans in 1982 and 1983. Maybe because the car use some components of a De Cadenet, but I think it was only to get an entry to Le Mans, because Alain was well known and well appreciate by ACO officials. And maybe also because the car had some papers from a De Cadenet to cross the sea ! May we ask Cris Crawford about these fact?

I will send this text to Dorset Racing and maybe they can answer on http://tentenths.com/forum/show...84#post1827084

Sorry for my bad English ! I am French and I work for Infos Course each year at Le Mans since 1994 (My first Le Mans was in 1972 !)

[driftwood]

car was the DFVW we where there watching it race
Toleman sponsored the car and it had jackie stewarts dfv fitted

[AMICALEMANS]

In addition to the text for 1980 :

"In 1980 : two cars.
Alain entered the De Cadenet LM number 8 (I suppose the same car than the previous year)
Nick Faure entered a De Cadenet LM number 11 for him Jones and De Dryiver. This car was white a red and blue stripe. But did not qualify."
This car according to the ACO scruteneening form is De Cadenet SLG 781 and was built in 1978; http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?i...to066ooit4.jpg

So what is SLG 781 (we have already a mysterious GLC 913 !)
S ?
L for Lola or Len
G still for Gordon ?
Or it is a Thompson reference ?

The previous year the car was entered as Lola SG 281 and i think the ACO made a mistake in 1979 (the 2, was only on typewriter paper !).
78 for the year and 1 for the first chassis ?

Keep on searching...

Is there anybody who now Alain De Cadenet adress ? it wll be more easier to as him !

[driftwood]

are they 2 cars or 2 entries for 1 car
red and white car can be Cooper SG car or Belga livery
i suspect its the Copper car

fotos will be required from the event to see what car tested and raced
tomorrow i have a meeting wth a man who said he knows de cad will see if he has tel # email data for him

[AMICALEMANS]

At this point, i think that we should now, wich car was the Belga Car (the only existing except LM1) : Is it LM3 built in 77 ? or LM4 built in 78 ?

[driftwood]

assume its LM4 as LM3 appears to have gone to Ray Mallocks to make the ecosse as i have that bodywork!

[gfm]

This isn't going to help much as I don't have the chassis number. Nice car though.
We used it for a Brands GP 4 Hr WC race. I remember we were 2nd or 3rd when a steering arm broke. I ran into the De C garage and filtched a spare off a spare front suspension assembly they had near the door ( our teams weren't talking: people who did business wit De C rarely did for long!). Half a result.

[driftwood]

John i think that car is LM3 then sold to Dorset racing to Tony
i have the body on green

[gttouring]

can someone give me a history of De Cadenet?
(the same Alain de Cadenet from Speed Channel?)

[driftwood]

Thats the guy!!!