No Wellington Street Race For NZ

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Tracy

Hi All

There is a piece in our local paper tonight about it all, and it seems that the racing clubs up in Auckland have now sorted out their differences (perhaps finally realising the $$ that must come in from the Supercars), and seem willing to now have both horses and cars at Pukekohe.

Apparently Manfeild has not had its bid officially rejected as yet (hmm.... my cynical side says this is more because of TC having the $14000 bond in his bank account that will have to be returned if he says no than anything else). Apparently the mayor from Wellington is travelling over to meet with Avesco and discuss the issue - what that is meant to achieve I have no idea

No source, but this is where I got the idea from. Thankyou Tracy.

So if Pukekohe is willing to hold races, the ball is definately in Avesco's court. What will he do ?

[Tracy]

Hi All

Well, it seems that the government has suddenly become involved after all (will wonders never cease??)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?ObjectID=10125883

Airbase plan for V8 races revived


17.05.05


By STUART DYE


Plans to host V8 Supercar racing at the Whenuapai airbase have been resurrected - marking a last-ditch bid for a New Zealand leg of the competition.

Defence Minister Mark Burton originally rejected a plan to host the event at Whenuapai after being warned off by military chiefs concerned about interference to Air Force operations and potential damage to facilities.

But he has now called for more talks about the plan with Supercar promoters today.

The Herald understands the Prime Minister stepped in after racing supporters sent her a 25-page report detailing the benefits of the event and the ways in which it could work.

Whenuapai town planner Pete Sinton, one of the report's authors, said it was New Zealand's last chance to be involved in V8 racing.

"This is absolutely last-ditch stuff," he said. "It's not a case of us pressuring the Government. The pressure is from Australia."

Avesco, the Australian event organisers, had become increasingly frustrated with New Zealand's apparent inability to "get its act together".

Mr Sinton said he and motor-racing champion Paul Radisich would travel to Wellington for the meeting.

The event has outgrown its traditional Pukekohe home, and plans to stage it as a street race in Auckland were dropped in November.

Wellington stepped in, but abandoned the plan last Friday, citing problems with resource consents.

Supporters of the Whenuapai proposal believe the event could thrive there, with little disruption to traffic or the local community. They argue that it could turn into an event to rival the America's Cup.

A spokeswoman for Mr Burton last night confirmed a meeting was going ahead today, but said the minister would not comment further until after the talks.


Also the source for the other bit about the racing clubs in Auckland was in the Manawatu Standard, and there was also an interview with someone from the Auckland Racing Club on TV One News.

[thejester]

Hello, my name is thejester and I am a motorsport fan...

I live in central Wellington. My apartment, believe it or not, OVERLOOKS the original proposed circuit.

Overlooks it.

I have been in too much pain to post on this until now.
I have watched in disbelief as a dream fell slowly to pieces.
I don't know quite what to say...I believe that the politics of my country are intended to embrace tolerance, and are often labelled PC by people who'd basically rather not tolerate others who see the world diferently. However, there has been a serious lack of tolerance by people who are the staunchest advocates of this approach. It became an issue embraced by Green-minded people, alongside genetic modification and road construction. I work in a liberal industry which is well supported by my government, but I am saddened by how many of those in my industry were anti the race on philosophical grounds. There was even snobbery to be heard, letters to newspapers thinly disguising loathing for the 'type of people' who would attend a motorsport event.
This resource management legislation is unfair. It is weighted towards those who would stop things. Nay-sayers. What killed the race was the legal costs of fighting nuisance legal obstacling by minority interests. The majority of submissions to the couincil wanted the race. That's the end of the story for me.

Sorry for my semi-coherent ramblings, but...

...over looked the course.

[Armco Bender]

On the radio whilst driving home tonite they are holding talks about using Whenuapai Airbase as a V8 track.
Well bugger me,we already dicussed that here about 6 months ago,not a hard one,a track near Auckland,residents used to the noise,hopefully this one might get off the ground before the tree huggers can stick the boot in again.

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Theres no point blaming the council, from my limited understanding of the Resource Management Act, it seems someone felt they would be disadvantaged by the race occuring, so the move is justified.

I'll bet that the residents of the Melbourne suburb of Albert Park wish that we had a resources management act as well...........

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by thejester

This resource management legislation is unfair. It is weighted towards those who would stop things. Nay-sayers. What killed the race was the legal costs of fighting nuisance legal obstacling by minority interests. The majority of submissions to the couincil wanted the race. That's the end of the story for me.

Sounds like "majority rule" isn't a concept that's welcomed in NZ.

Over the past few years I've worked with Kiwis, engineers, technicians, etc. You know, people who are reasonably well educated, probably liberal thinkers, etc..

The biggest stumbling block to advancement in that country, they tell me comes down to two words - "Helen Clark".

Was her government in power when this resources act came into being?

And their biggest gripe was the amount of pull that the Maoris have. They said that they're an ethnic group that in the 1400s, about 400 years before Europeans settled there, had finally wiped out the indigenous aboriginal population. Yet, they get to dictate policy on the premise that they ARE the true New Zealanders.

I don't want to start a racist bunfight here. But, it seems that the Maoris are like any other minority group, whether they be greenies, logging groups, unionists or whatever, who have a disproportinate say on public policy.

Whatever happened to governing fairly for all groups?

[flyingduck]

Well I would love to see it at the hamptons downs track but it has to still go thru resource consent. I think that the air base course is a waste of time as they have the same problem as everyone else and we need perment tracks

[911]

Armco, here is the printed version of the article you heard on the radio.
Seems AVESCO know nothing about it.

V8s Back To Auckland?

17/05/2005NewstalkZB
The saga surrounding the future of the V8 Supercars in New Zealand has taken a fresh twist.

Last week Wellington ruled itself out of contention, because of difficulties obtaining resource consent. The decision appeared to spell the end of hopes of the series being staged in this country.

However Defence Minister Mark Burton has today attended a meeting in Wellington, to discuss the possibility of holding races at Auckland's Whenuapai airbase.

Mr Burton has not been available for comment, but his spokeswoman Debbie Hannan says it was a constructive meeting, and although no decisions have been made, the minister and his officials now have a lot to think about.

While keeping quiet on the details of the proposal, one of its authors, Pete Sinton says he is pleased with today's discussions.

Mr Sinton says officials in Wellington will now review the proposal to decide whether to put together a fresh bid.

Supercar organisers AVESCO say they know nothing about the Whenuapai proposal.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by mjt57

Sounds like "majority rule" isn't a concept that's welcomed in NZ.

Over the past few years I've worked with Kiwis, engineers, technicians, etc. You know, people who are reasonably well educated, probably liberal thinkers, etc..

The biggest stumbling block to advancement in that country, they tell me comes down to two words - "Helen Clark".

Was her government in power when this resources act came into being?

And their biggest gripe was the amount of pull that the Maoris have. They said that they're an ethnic group that in the 1400s, about 400 years before Europeans settled there, had finally wiped out the indigenous aboriginal population. Yet, they get to dictate policy on the premise that they ARE the true New Zealanders.

I don't want to start a racist bunfight here. But, it seems that the Maoris are like any other minority group, whether they be greenies, logging groups, unionists or whatever, who have a disproportinate say on public policy.

Whatever happened to governing fairly for all groups?

This is very interesting. We are a mixed-up wee bunch. Originally, the Moriori (more-e-or-e) lived here, but the Maoris arrived from a land uknown called Hawaiiki - which as stupid as it sounds could have New Zealand originally and sea currents carried them else where when they were out fishing...!
Of course, the Maori ate the Moriori, and those that they didn't eat they drove out to the Chatham Islands.

Now if I remember rightly, the French actually dropped a boat here on a Northland beach during one of those amazingly heroic "exploring" visits that went on 250+ years ago. The clever Froggie buried a bottle on a beach in Northland that proclaimed New Zealand as a French colony, but in a fate of bad (good perhaps?) luck, he lost the map. Luckily for us really, given the French love affair with nuclear weapons....!

And so it was that the Poms settled here. There were land wars with the Maori, and all sorts of issues. Early Poms couldn't speak or write Maori the best and it is early written Maori that has caused us so much grief - we actually have four versions of the Treaty of Waitangi (Why-tang-e) and no two are the same due to translation "issues".
Resultingly, this and other issues have lead to some amazing payouts over grievance cases based on the unfair taking of land, a share of fisheries quotas etc, and obviously some "interesting" claims have been made. One of the funniest is the guy who believed that he owned or had the right to own all of the airspace on the East Coast of the North Island between Wellington and, for memory, Poverty Bay, including recompense for cellular, radio, and television airwaves and use of "his" airspace by any aircraft.

Then we got the Resource Management Act.......and another can of worms

[thejester]

This issue has nothing to do with MAori issues or our treaty claims process.

Sorry mjt57, you seem like a reasonable person just trying to understand things, but it is a matter of cliche that ex-pat kiwis going to Oz have issues with the 'bloody maoris'. Many of these people would prefer them to remain an impoverished underclass, who drive our taxis, build our houses, fill our army, occasionally entertain us with amusing song&dance and not get too 'uppity'. The issues of greivance are extremely complex, and many people have lost, or are losing patience with them, but they aren't going to go away if ignored, or if you emigrate. Whether or not the pendulum has swung to far could be debated all day, but is entirely out of place here.

Pus, there must be good reasons Helen Clark has remained solidly supported by a majority of NZers so far and will likely continue into another term.

The issue at work here is the Resource Management Act. This is a piece of legislation that needs rewriting. It's intention and good side is that it tries to protect us against rampant overseas funded development, which could easily swamp our country and buy it out from under us. On the down side it overly bureaucracizes all development. Another example, similar, is the prohibitive costs with building a new sports stadium in Auckland which may well scupper our Rugby World Cup hosting bid.

No sign of a practical alternative Act unfortunately. Aside from wealthy freemarketeers whose interests are best served by total unrestriction and a money=power culture. It's a hard task to nut out a revised Act, but the calls to do so are becoming louder and it should be done. Too late for my race though...

WHenuapai Airport? Ho-hum. Hardly spectacular.

[fordo]

Originally Posted by thejester

WHenuapai Airport? Ho-hum. Hardly spectacular.

The race that the Indy cars have on a Airport in the US is usually pretty spectacular but besides that it could save a lot of transport issues for the teams as they could just fly the whole lot in and out of the Airbase it self. It is more than capable of handling the planes for that.
Only downside could be access! What are the roads like around Whenuapai now? They weren't that good when I was home but that was a long time ago now.

What I don't understand about Pukekohe is - THE GRAND PLAN
20 years ago they had plans to upgrade/extend it by incorporating the old club circuit and the land behind the stables into the current layout. Part of the same plan was the current new pit lane and an alteration down at the hairpin. All this had been approved by the Counties Horse Racing Club at the time as they were going to benefit by the upgraded facilities as well and if I recall correctly they were also going to chip in with some money to help relocate the stables. The new stables were supposed to be built right behind the industrial buildings at the bottom of Manakau Rd. (Vaseys Truck Wreckers, Hire Centre etc). The contracts were all drawn up for the purchase of the land behind the stables and everything. I know this as fact as I did some weekend work for the farm owner at the time and then I moved to Aus losing contact. I do know the land was sold but not to whom.

Then the new track management team with Terri Butler at the helm took over and it all went to pieces. It was in the Herald at the time about the new circuit management team and there was something about a deal being done to confirm motor racing at the track for another 50 yrs.

Come forward in time 20 yrs until now and we have had people more in contact with the goings on at Pukekohe than I am now, that have mentioned on this Forum that there has been rumblings for some years now about the horse fraternity wanting the cars gone.
Prior to the original extension plan I mentioned - Yes there was a lot of discontent within the Horse people in the 70s and 80s, it was always in the local paper but a lot of it involved the Trotting fraternity who do not even use the facility but have a track etc across the road from the start of the back straight. They didnt like the noise, was the most common cry at the time. Then the GRAND PLAN was announced and all were quiet and happy - at the time.
If the original deal wasn't true (and knowing the person involved it would not surprise me at all) then why have they spent the money they have on Pukekohe if they were going to lose the use of it anyway? I understand the "Must have the V8s" side of it but would not the money have been better spent on another facility?
None of it makes any sense.

[racer69]

Amazing. We've got some Aussie's sticking up for the Kiwi's and you lot won't have a bar of it

[mjt57]

Originally Posted by thejester

This issue has nothing to do with MAori issues or our treaty claims process.

Sorry mjt57, you seem like a reasonable person just trying to understand things, but it is a matter of cliche that ex-pat kiwis going to Oz have issues with the 'bloody maoris'

The issue at work here is the Resource Management Act.

Yeah, I didn't want this to turn into a race based issue. Rather, trying to understand the implications of the resources act and how minority groups appear to be able to scupper legitimate projects for no other reason than that they can.

Some might suggest that we've gone the other way. Certainly, there are some residents of the Melbourne suburb of Albert Park think so, with regards to where the AGP is held.

[thejester]

Yeah, cheers mjt.

I've gotta back off from this for a bit. I came here to talk racing cars

You're probably right about Whenuapai Fordo. The Indy race is a good one. Sour grapes on my part, and a bad mood.

Heading back to F1 forum to chill out...

[retro]

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/
0,5478,15330130%255E39478,00.html

Hope for Kiwi V8 race
James Stanford
19may05

THE fate of the New Zealand round of the V8 Supercar championship will be decided on Tuesday.

New Zealand could miss out on a V8 event because street race proposals in Auckland and Wellington failed to obtain planning permission.
The Australian Vee Eight Supercar Company board will decide the future of V8 racing in New Zealand after Wellington council said this week that it would not be able to host a race by 2007 and faced significant problems to host one in 2008.

Despite claims by AVESCO chairman Tony Cochrane that New Zealand had "fallen off the face of the earth" because of its failure to come up with a race in either of the cities, there is still hope for Kiwi V8 Supercar fans.

The AVESCO board will consider a proposal to return to race at Pukekohe next year and possibly 2007 until a street race can be organised.

This is an option favoured by many V8 Supercar teams and drivers who don't want to walk away from New Zealand.

Kiwi Greg Murphy is leading the call for V8s to go back to New Zealand.

"To just not go back because we can't have the perfect event is just ridiculous," Murphy said yesterday.

He wants to continue racing at Pukekohe, where he has won four of the five rounds there.

"It's been at Pukekohe for the last five years and there have been no problems. I don't see why we can't continue," Murphy said.

He said support for V8 Supercars in New Zealand was massive and that fans did not deserve to have the event taken away.

"That would be a disaster," Murphy said. "It has become a huge sporting event."

Holden Racing Team ace Mark Skaife also wants to continue in New Zealand.

"New Zealand is an important market, they are mad motor sport fans and we have a great following there," he said.

Skaife said he was disappointed the Auckland and Wellington street races had fallen through because of red tape.

"I don't think the decisions properly represent the following of V8 Supercars in New Zealand," Skaife said.

Skaife said he had no problem with Pukekohe as a race track, but said moving to a street race would give the V8s a bigger profile in New Zealand.

Castrol Racing driver Steve Richards said a street race was the best option for the future of V8 Supercar racing in New Zealand and hoped one could still be held in either Auckland or Wellington.

"I hope they are not just being short-sighted. Just look at Adelaide's street race and how popular that is," he said.

Richards said he would still be happy to return to Pukekohe, as long as some safety issues, including a lack of run-off, were addressed.

"They (the issues) could be overlooked until now because there was not a long-term plan to stay at Pukekohe," Richards said.

"I love the place, but if we stay there long term there are some issues that we need to look at."

BOC Racing driver John Bowe said it would be a great shame if New Zealand was dropped from the V8 Supercar calendar.

He said Pukekohe needed more curbing to stop cars running on to the grass, but was a good circuit.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by retro

Richards said he would still be happy to return to Pukekohe, as long as some safety issues, including a lack of run-off, were addressed.

"They (the issues) could be overlooked until now because there was not a long-term plan to stay at Pukekohe," Richards said.

"I love the place, but if we stay there long term there are some issues that we need to look at."

Ok... my question is... how does a safety issue get ignored just because the series isnt coming back in future years?

A circuit is either safe, or it isnt safe... there is nothing in the middle... if it isnt safe, it should not have an FIA inspection certificate... and drivers should probably not really be commenting on safety issues when it is not necessarily in their knowledge bases what acceptable international standards are....

Where is that Driver's Safety Committee thing again? Or did it die when Cromley crossed over to the dark side?

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by retro

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/
0,5478,15330130%255E39478,00.html



The AVESCO board will consider a proposal to return to race at Pukekohe next year and possibly 2007 until a street race can be organised. .

Once again why are they so short sighted about a street race. If Pukekohe is good for 2006 and 2007, why not make it a long term thing.

Originally Posted by retro

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/

Kiwi Greg Murphy is leading the call for V8s to go back to New Zealand.

"To just not go back because we can't have the perfect event is just ridiculous," Murphy said yesterday.


"It's been at Pukekohe for the last five years and there have been no problems. I don't see why we can't continue," Murphy said. .

The voice of common sense. Puts up a compelling case, dont he.

[Rombles1]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

The voice of common sense. Puts up a compelling case, dont he.

Certainly Murph has had no problems at Pukekohe, but I'm not sure Mr. Jones, Baird and Dumbrell, Triple 8's battery supplier, and even Jason Richards (looking back further) would agree.

Although if the horsey people (Is that just Kiwi's with longer legs than average? ) can be placated, and the facilities improved, why not stay at Pukekohe? As long as the current Resource Management Act is in place, it doesn't look like anyone in NZ is going to be able to get a street race together, and demanding one in light of this sounds like *******ry. Which makes me wonder who Mr Cochrane has promised the spare round this would create, to?

[Armco Bender]

Maybe Mr Cochranes a city boy and doesn't like getting horse**** on his Guiccis when he's walking through the pits at Pukekohe.
Puke's the best we got at the moment,use it or lose it.

[tanalised]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Maybe Mr Cochranes a city boy and doesn't like getting horse**** on his Guiccis when he's walking through the pits at Pukekohe.
Puke's the best we got at the moment,use it or lose it.

Precisely

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Certainly Murph has had no problems at Pukekohe, but I'm not sure Mr. Jones, Baird and Dumbrell.

I cant see how these accidents were attributed to Pukekohe, couldn't they have happened at any race circuit, street or permanent.

Originally Posted by Rombles1

Although if the horsey people (Is that just Kiwi's with longer legs than average? ) can be placated, and the facilities improved, why not stay at Pukekohe?

Why should the facilities have to be improved ? They have been alright for the past 5 years or however long.

What I think would really make this situation interesting, if another championship, maybe FIA GT's or WTCC made a play for the NZ market and said we are happy to run at Pukekohe or another permanent circuit, with out all the fuss and the dictator approach that Avesco have put New Zealand through.

I would be over there in a flash to attend those events.

Just a thought that maybe someone (New Zealand) should put to Avesco, might stop their all or nothing approach

[mixxer]

"Avesco won't give up on NZ"
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,...a13275,00.html

"AVESCO committed to NZ"
http://www.sportal.com.au/motorsport...=news&id=66107

PS

I would be over there in a flash to attend those events.

I find that hard to believe when you dont attend race's in your own state

[Falcadore]

Mixxer: twas more of a comment of the quality of the FIA GT/WTCC field than anything else I think

I should be noted though that FIA GT & the WTCC are not a combined show. They share the European rounds out of convenience, but if FIA GT came our way, chances are high because of our own tin top leanings WTCC would not come, because of the negative publicity the battalions of nay sayers insisting V8Supercar was better.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by mixxer

PS

I find that hard to believe when you dont attend race's in your own state

How do you know what races I do and dont attend.

I would not attend a V8 race, but an FIA GT event or a WTCC event I cant see a problem

[Evomike]

So, let me get this straight, you don't attend supercar races? yet you are some how an expert on what "the people" want?! Hmmmm......