Nikita Mazepin

[Akrapovic]

James Hunt raced half a century ago. It's a different time with different standards. You don't judge either person using the 'rules' of a different time.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

James Hunt raced half a century ago. It's a different time with different standards. You don't judge either person using the 'rules' of a different time.

Remember seeing a certain Italian college of James' getting a smack alongside the head by a young lady who objected to him inappropriately putting a hand on her anatomy, seemed like summary justice that saved everybody a lot of time, left him with a five finger sticker, and fixed the problem.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wnut

Remember seeing a certain Italian college of James' getting a smack alongside the head by a young lady who objected to him inappropriately putting a hand on her anatomy, seemed like summary justice that saved everybody a lot of time, left him with a five finger sticker, and fixed the problem.

Until the next raceday......

[bella]

Originally Posted by wnut

Remember seeing a certain Italian college of James' getting a smack alongside the head by a young lady who objected to him inappropriately putting a hand on her anatomy, seemed like summary justice that saved everybody a lot of time, left him with a five finger sticker, and fixed the problem.

any woman will tell you you absolutely cannot do that nowadays. too many men can’t handle a polite “no thanks” and go nuclear, imagine how well a slap would go down. particularly amongst the type of idiot who lashes out on track when someone dares challenge him.

[Akrapovic]

I'm not entirely sure that the order of operations should be "grope a woman" and then "find out if she is ok with being groped". Is that how we find out if a woman is ok with being sexually assaulted? Do it first, and see how she reacts?

My neighbour has a rather nice car. I'm going to go steal it and then judge his reaction afterwards to find out if he's ok with that.

[Peter Mallett]

In civilised society it was ever the same. Either the action was consensual or you got a slap. Hence most of us didn't event think about it. Why is it different now?

[Akrapovic]

Because the consequences for sexual assault are now more than a slap.

[Peter Mallett]

No, more because we don't recognise personal space until someone tells us. Sad isn't it. What was good or bad manners now has to be legislated.

[Akrapovic]

I am 100% for the moving of sexual assault to being a legislated issue, rather than being covered under bad manners.

[Peter Mallett]

I'm more about being a gentleman and civilised behaviour. Legislation takes away personal responsibility.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

My neighbour has a rather nice car. I'm going to go steal it and then judge his reaction afterwards to find out if he's ok with that.

Boys will be Boys. I am sure you would just be having a bit of fun. No harm meant? Not sure what the fuss is all about!



Richard

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Boys will be Boys. I am sure you would just be having a bit of fun. No harm meant? Not sure what the fuss is all about!



Richard

No harm meant at all! We don't need the law to protect his property - I just need to be responsible when I steal it. If I'm not, he can slap me.

[midgetman]

Personal responsibility clearly doesn't work in the 21st century.

To be frank it didn't work in the 20th century either, it's just that crass, boorish behaviour was seen as high spirits and harmless fun. Heaven forbid that the victim protested, they were seen as a frigid party pooper.

Personally I rather like the 21st century way of doing things.

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[Adam43]

And not everyone has the confidence to slap back, or can be sure that this won't escalate after doing so. They shouldn't have to either, as it shouldn't happen in the first place.

Things have changed and it's a good thing here.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I'm more about being a gentleman and civilised behaviour. Legislation takes away personal responsibility.

What rubbish. It does nothing of the sort. You still have the personal responsibility not to assault people.
Legislation just means the state can punish you if you neglect that personal responsibility.

[djinvicta]

100% correct Adam.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

What rubbish. It does nothing of the sort. You still have the personal responsibility not to assault people.
Legislation just means the state can punish you if you neglect that personal responsibility.

OK. I think you missed my point. Hey ho.

[Akrapovic]

Would you like to clarify your point? Given the topic is sexual assault, it is at least on topic.

[midgetman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

OK. I think you missed my point. Hey ho.

I think most of us did. So please explain.

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[Greem]

I keep typing things in this thread and deleting them, because the nuance in the specific issue at hand is really complex.

There is no nuance wrt Mr Mazepin, though. He's young, white, rich and entitled. It appears (from previous performances) that he's a reasonable driver with unreasonable expectations, and when the expectations aren't met, he's an arrogant young man with no sense of his own entitlement.

He won't last. The piranhas will eat him.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by midgetman

I think most of us did. So please explain.

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OK, without getting into a treatise on the differences between morals, rules and laws and codes of conduct. If we hadn't seen the video, we wouldn't be discussing this. Hence he didn't break a law, he behaved immorally. But we've seen it so arguably he's broken a sporting rule but unless someone brings charges, he isn't subject to the law. Having broken a rule he should receive a slap of some kind. To put it another way. When Shuey introduced his chop, we saw it as unsporting, it didn't break any laws. The FIA introduced a rule to stop it. My point being that we all have a moral compass and shouldn't rely on laws and or rules to stop us doing things.

What he did was reprehensible, and he should have received a slap for it. But it became public knowledge and thus now he should be sanctioned. Hope this helps.

[Akrapovic]

It seems we didn’t miss your point. A slap is not an appropriate repercussion for groping a woman. It isn’t schrodinger's assault. It doesn’t change just because it is witnessed.

[midgetman]

Moral code often varies with the society you come from. Even in the UK we can look back at practices that were perfectly OK to the morals of the time but seem abhorrent to us now - e.g. cock fighting or slavery. Our "moral compass" was lax enough that we had to use laws to ban these from happening and a jolly good thing that is, I suspect we all agree.

I don't know the ins and outs of Russian society - maybe what Mazepin did is acceptable and he can't understand the fuss. But a globalised society means we do need laws to set boundaries, they show the "way we like things done around here."

"Being a gentleman" means different things to different people. We've seen some repulsive "gentlemen" over the years

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[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It isn’t schrodinger's assault. It doesn’t change just because it is witnessed.

Best post ever.

Prof Schrödinger gets pulled over at customs. The officer opens his suitcase and says “do you know there’s a dead cat in here?”. Schrödinger replies “well I do now!”.

Geek joke. I love it. YMMV!

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

It seems we didn’t miss your point. A slap is not an appropriate repercussion for groping a woman. It isn’t schrodinger's assault. It doesn’t change just because it is witnessed.

Again you take me literally. There are all kinds of metaphor for a "slap". The posters here are getting all uptight about something that wouldn't have been known of it hadn't been posted on the web. As far as I can tell he hasn't been charged with assault thus he has not broken any laws. It's the old "don't get caught" thing. As to what constitutes gentlemanly conduct, having worked and lived all over the world among polite societies there is very little difference in what it means. So, as I said it is reprehensible, and he deserves a slap whether that be by his parents taking away his privileges or the team sanctioning him. I don't really care if anyone thinks I'm wrong on this but it is interesting watching all the angst.