|
|||||||||||
|
|||||||||||
24 Jun 2019, 13:15 (Ref:3913931) | #76 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,406
|
Quote:
I really like it though... its a good call @Mike Bell... @Simon Hadfield ... WATCH OUT! ha ha |
|||
__________________
Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
24 Jun 2019, 13:33 (Ref:3913935) | #77 | |
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 244
|
||
|
24 Jun 2019, 15:22 (Ref:3913963) | #78 | |
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 284
|
This has all rather drifted away from the original post
The problem arises when two or more drivers are racing closely at the head of the field. They start lapping cars but still remain in a close group. Great race, everyone is riveted. Out comes the safety car just as the lead car has lapped someone but the second car hasn't. It picks up the leader correctly and all the field close up as required in a neat line behind it. Pause to catch breath. Hope the SC isn't too long Safety car lights go out. Sigh of relief. Let's get back to the racing. Two thirds round the lap the safety car streaks off to leave a large gap back to the leader. As soon as the leader decides he won't overtake the SC he is free to resume his racing speed. So is the, much slower, car about to be lapped. Because he can't overtake, the second place man can't get back to full speed even though the leader can and has. By the time they reach the line and he finally laps the car, the second place man is ten seconds adrift. Race ruined, great anticlimax,general disgust and disappointment. Happens all the time. Answer. Make the restart like a rolling start. Everyone, including the leader, has to hold station all the way until the green flag is waved as they slowly approach the start liine. |
|
|
24 Jun 2019, 17:41 (Ref:3913983) | #79 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,033
|
I'd think we all agree that Safety Cars are a necessary evil (and I have done Safety Car duties!) and that they can and do disrupt races.....however the situation Mike Crow describes above is only as likely as the situation where a lead that has been built up over a considerable time is wiped out by the intervention of the SC, allowing say a 10 second gap to be rendered none-existent.......equally unfair, IMHO.
Again that's why I prefer a FCY or Code 60. |
||
__________________
Richard Murtha: You don't stop racing because you are too old, you get old when you stop racing! But its looking increasingly likely that I've stopped.....have to go back to rallying ;) |
24 Jun 2019, 18:34 (Ref:3913995) | #80 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
Yes, a hard earned advantage over the car(s) behind can be lost by SC intervention, but there’s no control over that. Also, in a driver change race, if you’ve just done your stop the lap before the SC joins, you can lose out to those pitting during the SC period. OK, they risk getting held at the end of the pit-lane, but even then, can gain time. Again, that is ‘the luck of the draw’- sometimes you win, sometimes you lose! The situation that started the thread could be controlled, though. In a perfect SC world, cars would all dutifully line up 5m apart, there would be no gaps or second / third / fourth trains, and at the restart the whole field would cross the control line in order.... BUT, most of the time it doesn’t happen! The possible solutions? Pound the message into competitors heads at briefings. Threaten them with exclusion, points on their licences, Spanish Inquisition.... Have drivers complete a written test after the briefing.... Less than 100% you’re out. Black flag any cars not catching the train. And hope the drivers know what a black flag means.... OR- Allow overtaking as soon as green flags replace waved yellows all around the circuit..... |
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
24 Jun 2019, 18:49 (Ref:3913998) | #81 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,697
|
OR- Allow overtaking as soon as green flags replace waved yellows all around the circuit..... [/QUOTE]
Now that's what I call sensible |
||
__________________
Comments made are personal and don't reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
24 Jun 2019, 20:28 (Ref:3914013) | #82 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,812
|
|||
__________________
a salary slave no more... |
24 Jun 2019, 22:09 (Ref:3914028) | #83 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,406
|
Gentlemen... I have tagged some of you on face book with regard to when it is possible to overtake a safety car regardless of if he waves you through or not!! (Calum Lockies' close shave at Dony)
scarey stuff |
||
__________________
Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
25 Jun 2019, 00:00 (Ref:3914030) | #84 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,412
|
Quote:
When we actually got racing again and I could overtake the mobile chicane that caused the problem I was simply in a sprint for the last 3 laps. OK I was credited with a 9th place but I loved my wheel to wheel racing and to go to Spa for a drive round the track on my own I wasn't best pleased ! |
|||
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
25 Jun 2019, 04:39 (Ref:3914047) | #85 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
Closer the better IMO...... Last edited by Mike Bell; 25 Jun 2019 at 05:07. |
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
25 Jun 2019, 05:11 (Ref:3914050) | #86 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
BUT, I think we all agree that the main problem is drivers not catching up the train, and that can happen at Spa with two SCs just as easily. |
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
25 Jun 2019, 05:40 (Ref:3914054) | #87 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 10,046
|
Quote:
Because I did some marshaling and was instructor I can tell you that things are different seen from the walls. May be all drivers should spend time as marshals before applying their racing licence? Would be a good thing. |
|||
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps. |
25 Jun 2019, 11:31 (Ref:3914106) | #88 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
Quote:
Re: your first sentence, drivers of slower cars can’t win. They’re told to catch up the train as quickly as possible, but can’t drive quickly. For some, ‘flat out’ would still make it difficult to catch up. Maybe time to assert the 130% lap time rule? |
|||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
25 Jun 2019, 12:42 (Ref:3914118) | #89 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,078
|
Quote:
Our recently departed Clerk JS used to ask drivers questions in the briefing, which concentrated the mind. I've also been to a meeting (CSCC?) where they included a requirement to bring a chocolate bar for the marshals to the briefing, or make a larger donation to the marshal's fund, just to see who read the instructions. |
||
|
25 Jun 2019, 13:01 (Ref:3914122) | #90 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,412
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa ! |
25 Jun 2019, 13:09 (Ref:3914123) | #91 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 10,046
|
|||
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps. |
25 Jun 2019, 13:59 (Ref:3914130) | #92 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,406
|
|||
__________________
Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
25 Jun 2019, 15:19 (Ref:3914137) | #93 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,652
|
As a casual spectator in all of this I'll just throw m y ten-pennyworth in here if you don't mind. If there are any particularly slow cars tat could be causing un-necessary hold-ups, I agree with the suggestion that they are black flagged into the pits & out of the way. This is not as a punishment, it's just removing the additional hazard from the snake behind the safety car. These cars can then be held out of the way until the race is re-started, and then let back out to play on the track once the train has passed by the pits. Even if they're held in the pits for a few laps, it shouldn't affect their results if they're that slow!
|
||
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
25 Jun 2019, 16:00 (Ref:3914148) | #94 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 10,046
|
|||
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps. |
25 Jun 2019, 16:14 (Ref:3914151) | #95 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,406
|
|||
__________________
Martin Smith Clerk of the Course, 3 times Race of Remembrance class Winner Organising Committee and regs writer of ROR, Chair and owner of 360 Motor Racing Club |
25 Jun 2019, 16:26 (Ref:3914153) | #96 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 10,046
|
Malgré l'âge qui avance, inexorablement, je vais aussi bien que possible, merci. Thanks to you I had to Google the Essex history and learned about your "comté cérémonial". Not surprised to read a perfect french language from You.
|
||
__________________
Celui qui est parti de rien pour arriver nulle part,n'a de merci a dire a personne.Pour ceux qui vont chercher midi a quatorze heures, la minute de Vérité risque de se faire attendre longtemps. |
25 Jun 2019, 16:45 (Ref:3914158) | #97 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,791
|
|||
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq! |
21 Jul 2019, 08:32 (Ref:3918708) | #98 | ||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,830
|
An update on the original point (not being able to overtake until passing the start line)..... at the recent Hungaroring event, a meeting was held to discuss the issue. An invited panel of drivers (of different nationalities) sat down with the series race director and organising supremo, and were all in agreement that the ISC regulation is far from satisfactory when applied to historic racing.
Obviously nothing can happen unless the ISC/FIA wish it to, but representation will be made, which is a result in itself! |
||
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein) |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Indycar needs a new restart procedure? | marcostraz | Indycar Series | 1 | 3 May 2010 23:02 |
Revised safety car procedure for French GP ? | Marbot | Formula One | 10 | 12 Jun 2008 00:50 |
Safety Car procedure. Time for a change? Discuss... | Stuart Hill | Marshals Forum | 28 | 6 Jun 2008 11:11 |
Lapped cars in second safety car period | BootsOntheSide | Formula One | 45 | 1 Jun 2008 02:30 |
Bridgestone blame Safety Car period for tyre issue | Nicholosophy | Formula One | 29 | 20 May 2005 03:22 |