[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[broadrun96]

I'm thinking Russell may be on the short list of Mercedes aligned drivers to survive. It doesn't seem like they'll give him the Ocon treatment, and think teams want to have him. He has the unofficial lap record at Hungary after last year's test I believe so he's no slouch. Will be interesting to see if Williams can improve and challenge Racing Point as best of the other Mercedes runners. If they can, keeping him at Williams could be a plus until he has a couple seasons if Bottas moves on (or he is asked to). Although that may leave Ocon as the odd man out missing the ride.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I wonder how long Williams will be able to hold on to Russell for now?

Where else could Mr Russell go? Mercedes seems to have another option in mind

Story Here

[S griffin]

He did a really good job in the race, managing to beat an Alfa and a Racing Point I think.

[Richard C]

I think everyone will not agree with my comment as the jury is still out on these drivers, but I can imagine Mercedes looking at recent experience of RBR and Ferrari with respect to quickly promoting relatively inexperienced drivers (from an F1 perspective) into one of the three top teams. Kvyat and Gasly at RBR and Lecrec at Ferrari. Gasly and Lecrec may work out in the long run, but you have two top teams who are very much using their second car in a way that is wrong (extended on the job training/tryout). A season or two for both of those drivers in another team would have been best IMHO. However, teams feel the need to snatch them up quickly, so drivers get promoted early. Max is the exception and not the rule here.

So while George looks promising, I think it would be premature to move him to the best team right away. But F1 teams love to gamble, so who knows.

Richard

[Graz]

Russell is good enough already. A bit unfair to lump LeClerc in with the ‘promoted too soon’ crowd. All I’m reading and hearing is how he has been establishing the upper hand on Seb. LeClerc has looked more like winning in a car that looks unlikely to do so this year.

[S griffin]

Indeed, he would have won Bahrain but for that mechanical problem

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Graz

Russell is good enough already.

Maybe, maybe not

Originally Posted by Graz

A bit unfair to lump LeClerc in with the ‘promoted too soon’ crowd. All I’m reading and hearing is how he has been establishing the upper hand on Seb. LeClerc has looked more like winning in a car that looks unlikely to do so this year.

Read more. His mistakes are a topic of discussion. Not trying to poke you in the eye here. I am just saying all commentary is not positive and you don't have to dig to find stuff like this...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...IkJjlEMTX.html

I will say... I am NOT willing to die on this hill. As I said I don't expect many to agree with me and to be frank... I don't hold my opinion very strongly. LeClerc might be exactly where he should be. Only time will tell. I personally hope he does well. I would like to see a new generation of drivers do well and in top cars.

My point is that it IS risky to promote new drivers directly into top teams. I don't have numbers in front of me, but I feel that overall, it is sort of hit or miss. They either work or they don't. If they don't they may take a season or two to settle down. If you are a top team... why go through that drama?

In the end, I think Russell is a star. I just think it might be unfair of him to jump straight from Williams into a top car. If he had spent 2019 in a mid-field car I would be more inclined to say move him up. Right now he has been driving around in poor car. Williams seems to be making progress. Especially this weekend. But taking what is basically a great weekend for him and them moving him into Mercedes? IMHO... dream on. He is only half way through his first season.

What DOES make sense is for top teams to lock up promising drivers into contracts and then place them into lower teams to see if they can live up to their expectations and then promote them when they are ready and the team has an opening.

Richard.

[TrapezeArtist]

You can pick examples to prove either point of view. But promoting drivers quickly carries a risk.

If the promotion is too quick and the driver flounders, he's on the way to Indycar, sports cars or the dole queue. If the driver is held in a mid-grid car for a season longer than necessary, it's no big deal. Perhaps he's half-wasted a year but he'll get the top drive in the end.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

You can pick examples to prove either point of view. But promoting drivers quickly carries a risk.

If the promotion is too quick and the driver flounders, he's on the way to Indycar, sports cars or the dole queue. If the driver is held in a mid-grid car for a season longer than necessary, it's no big deal. Perhaps he's half-wasted a year but he'll get the top drive in the end.

What about those drivers, who are stuck mid-grid and will never that top drive?

[Aysedasi]

Time to move on....... Compulsory retirement if you haven't scored x points by your 4th year in F1......

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Time to move on....... Compulsory retirement if you haven't scored x points by your 4th year in F1......

Another way to spice up F1! If they don't make the cut... Feed them to the lions!

Richard

[gert]

I don't think Leclerc was promoted too soon.
Most of the comments about the mistakes that "should not have been" are his own.

He seems to be self-critical and not looking for mistakes. Most (all?) of the times he owed up to it, and blamed himself.

He had good races (great even), and good results. With a bit more luck he could have won a race or maybe even 2.

He has thrown away good results too, but I think that was always part of the expectations at Ferrari. I suppose they saw 2019 as a learning and building season and expect less errors and more consistency in 2020.
Not a bad approach IMO.

For Gasly, the story is different. Apart from 1 or 2 decent (not even good) races, he has deceived all season long.
How many times has he been lapped by his teammate?

I think Leclerc's season is in no way comparable to that of Gasly.
Both got a top drive after 1 single season.
One of them is making the most of it, the other is not.

[djinvicta]

Yes.... Russell to stay at Willy.. Kubica? Must be gone.. Leclerc is top notch youngster.. Interesting to see Ferrari still botch his result to get Seb in front. That won't last long.
Gasly will be a gonna.. Watch Bottas fit in to Red Bull for next year, with Ocon into the Merc...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by gert

I don't think Leclerc was promoted too soon.
Most of the comments about the mistakes that "should not have been" are his own.

He seems to be self-critical and not looking for mistakes. Most (all?) of the times he owed up to it, and blamed himself.

He had good races (great even), and good results. With a bit more luck he could have won a race or maybe even 2.

He has thrown away good results too, but I think that was always part of the expectations at Ferrari. I suppose they saw 2019 as a learning and building season and expect less errors and more consistency in 2020.
Not a bad approach IMO.

Could well be. I very much could be wrong to include LeClerc. Especially if Ferrari is OK with his season and planned for it. There is really no chance anyone would just "drop in" and do awesome.

Originally Posted by gert

For Gasly, the story is different. Apart from 1 or 2 decent (not even good) races, he has deceived all season long.
How many times has he been lapped by his teammate?

I think Leclerc's season is in no way comparable to that of Gasly.
Both got a top drive after 1 single season.
One of them is making the most of it, the other is not.

I am trying to not write off Gasly. I think he is hot and cold. However that is not a quality that can survive at the top. Gasly has to get his stuff together and kill it for the second half of the season if he plans to remain with RBR.

I think at time Bottas can also be hot and cold. but I would say he is maybe improving overall? It's got to be hard when your teammate is particularly good (Lewis and Max) and your team is generally doing all the right things (Mercedes and RBR).

Richard

PS: We are off topic and it's my fault. We should take this stuff to the 2020 silly season thread.

[chillibowl]

Its looking like things could be getting closer on the constructors side so i could see Merc wanting a proven hand in the 2nd seat. Bottas was a last minute signing but has met the expectations of his seat.

And even Ferrari, no slight to Leclerc but imo Ferrari seems to be missing a pair of steady hands of the Kimster.

[S griffin]

Gasly was a season too soon, which only came about by Ricciardo's departure and no other really suitable replacements from a Red Bull backed point

[Skam85]

Should have taken Alonso for a year

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Should have taken Alonso for a year

Was Alonso even in the equation?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Was Alonso even in the equation?

In Lewis Hamilton and some on here and other sites comments yes. In reality, well let's see they won't let McLaren sign with Andretti and run at Indy even though HPD very much wanted that deal. So I'm going to guess that's a big negatory on Alonso ever with a Honda program again.

[Richard C]

I agree that Honda is basically done with Alonso. Bridges has been burnt. Time might heal wounds, but Alonso is in the twilight of his career, so time is running out. We may never see him in a Honda again.

Richard

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I agree that Honda is basically done with Alonso. Bridges has been burnt. Time might heal wounds, but Alonso is in the twilight of his career, so time is running out. We may never see him in a Honda again.

Richard

Maybe Mr Alonso can run a TCRA Honda Civic RS down here.. they have a spare car in the local works assisted team...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Maybe Mr Alonso can run a TCRA Honda Civic RS down here.. they have a spare car in the local works assisted team...

As this is the, Team Williams: Do they have a plan? thread, maybe Alonso could replace Kubica?

[djr81]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

As this is the, Team Williams: Do they have a plan? thread, maybe Alonso could replace Kubica?

Well if you are going to drag the topic back to being about Williams.....

In the prevailing opinion which of the last two GP's reflect better where they are at? In other words does the German or the Hungarian result better reflect the level of progress they have/have not made recently.

Are they tied to the last two places on the grid for the rest of the year or will the updates allow them to compete with someone - even get into Q2?

[S griffin]

Seriously they could no worse than they are doing now then giving Fred the drive, given he is still on top form

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

As this is the, Team Williams: Do they have a plan? thread, maybe Alonso could replace Kubica?

Yes... back on topic.

I think I read somewhere recently that Alonso had put feelers out to Mercedes, Ferrari and RBR only. The article discussed various reasons why its unlikely he would be land a ride at any of those three. I expect we may not see Alonso back in F1 unless Alonso settles for a lesser team. And I dont see that happening. But I would love for him to prove me wrong.

Richard