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Old 30 Aug 2019, 21:30 (Ref:3924894)   #76
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A frames are also illegal in Spain, and quite a few motorhomers who take a small car behind them have found this out the hard way. Stopped, fined, and not allowed to continue without unhitching and driving both vehicles.
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Old 31 Aug 2019, 05:36 (Ref:3924928)   #77
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Interesting, please correct me if I’ve got this wrong, but it appears that a car being towed on an A-frame is classed as a trailer, so has to conform to the regulations on brakes, as well as lighting etc.? Seems a few countries have decided to simply ban them completely, while others are hesitating / ignoring.....

Suggestion is that if the ‘trailer’ weight is below 750kg all up then it doesn’t have to have brakes, same as a normal trailer. I think that justifies early Smart cars and French quadricycles only! I’ve seen more than one Jeep Cherokee being towed on an A-frame, admittedly usually behind an American RV , and the RV rental people usually tow their van behind when delivering, so that the driver can return to base.

BTW the ‘dolly’ used by recovery people is only legal for just that- emergency recovery.

And a new way of transporting your race car is being trialled in the UK.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wal...in-aberystwyth

Last edited by Mike Bell; 31 Aug 2019 at 05:43.
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Old 31 Aug 2019, 14:32 (Ref:3924965)   #78
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There are mechanisms to enable the towed vehicle/trailer's brakes to be activated when being towed on an A-frame - although I admit I've never used them, and have some doubts about their effectiveness. Generally speaking in this country the "turn a blind eye" approach has been taken, although many years ago when driving a 7.5 tonne MAN recovery truck with a car on the bed and another on the A-frame a motorway cop did stop me (on the pretext that something was dangling below my "trailer") and then point out that the trailer was unbraked. I didn't argue of course, but merely suggested that as the truck was braked for a train weight of 8.25 tonne and the total all-up weight was probably less than about 6 tonne I had adequate capacity.....he wandered off saying he was only commenting.....
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 06:22 (Ref:3925334)   #79
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No, you havenít misunderstood! We were told by our authority that all EU countries (except Spain, Malta, Cyprus & Liechtenstein) had signed up to the Ď1968 Vienna convention on road transportí and that trailers over 750kg would have to be registered, then display that registration plate. All this from the end of March. But, unless the plates I saw on the back of trailers from virtually every E Europe country, Germany, Netherlands etc., this morning were different to the tow vehicle number, none had them......

Very strange!
This would appear to not be an EU Treaty requirement and thus is not an EU law.

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This may possibly be one of those cases in the EU that although all countries may have signed up for a particular piece of legislation, it is up to the individual member states when that legislation is incorporated into it's own statutes.

As far as the UK is concerned, because we are supposed to be leaving the EU, it has meant that all the EU legislation that had been passed by Brussels but that had not yet been incorporated had to be included on the UK's statute book before the 29th March 2019. The theory is that the UK Parliament will then go through all that legislation at some time in the future to decide whether they wish to repeal such legislation..

It may be that other EU member states have yet to incorporate this particular bit of legislation in to their own laws.

Hope that I haven't confused the reader too much! And I think that this may not be the only anomaly that will appear in the years to come!
As above this is probably not EU law. That said EU States (not Countries) are permitted to derogate from EU laws if it affects, health, safety or security. There are also implementation periods. Thus if I'm correct in this case there was no reason for the UK to derogate, or attempt so to do, since it's not an EU regulation.
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 10:57 (Ref:3925371)   #80
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This would appear to not be an EU Treaty requirement and thus is not an EU law.

That said EU States (not Countries) are permitted to derogate from EU laws if it affects, health, safety or security. There are also implementation periods. Thus if I'm correct in this case there was no reason for the UK to derogate, or attempt so to do, since it's not an EU regulation.
It's in place now so canít see it being cancelled! I guess we implemented it because thatís what we always do as a country?
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 11:01 (Ref:3925373)   #81
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I may have missed something but as I understand it, it doesn't apply to trailers traveling around the UK, so yes, if you are trailering in Europe for business; and, your trailer weighs more than 3500Kg unladen, you'll need it, but only to comply with local EU state requirements.

Here it is. It is specifically for vehicles traveling to Europe and/or other destinations. Will have to look at the supervening Act because this is supplementary. And it confirms that "A full impact assessment has not been produced for this instrument as no, or no significant, impact on the private, voluntary or public sectors is foreseen".

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Old 2 Sep 2019, 11:10 (Ref:3925375)   #82
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Yes, required when in EU only.....
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 11:12 (Ref:3925377)   #83
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Yes, required when in EU only.....
And only those states that signed up to the convention.
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 11:17 (Ref:3925379)   #84
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Peter is correct in that this is not an EU piece of legislation, and I was obviously wrong as I didn't bother to look it up. The "convention" was a product of the United Nations, and actually dates back to 1968, coming in to effect in 1988.

However, although the UK was a signatory to the convention, the UK did not ratify (i.e. place it on the statute book) but it did incorporate most of the convention. But, one part of the convention that it did not incorporate was the requirement for trailer registration.

Therefore, as much of the EU has ratified the convention, the government decided to ratify the convention to bring the UK's legislation in line with many other EU countries.
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 11:23 (Ref:3925380)   #85
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Off topic comment alert
I have to type this or my brain will explode!

Off topic, but relevant to the conversation is the 1998 Human Rights Act. Whilst this piece of legal garbage was enacted by Parliament, it actually has nothing to do with the EU. The theory was that the although UK had signed up to it (indeed wrote most of it) the European Convention on Human Rights was not enshrined in law. The Act made the European Court of Human Rights superior to the Supreme Court, within its remit. This was as a result of sheer stupidity since the ECoHR has nothing to do the the EU.

Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic


And so it goes.
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