Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing > ACO Regulated Series


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Sep 2019, 15:39 (Ref:3925245)   #616
Adam43
14th
20KPINAL
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 33,387
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Well it’s over now so it’s not really important
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set and Go Out and Do Something Less Boring Instead?
Quote
Old 1 Sep 2019, 19:37 (Ref:3925275)   #617
Alex Langheck
Racer
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 223
Alex Langheck should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
I am still to be convinced if the super season was the right move
I'm fully convinced; that it WASN'T. Another in a long list of errors by the ACO regarding 'their' championship. Stick to running Le Mans, and leave the WEC to professionals.

And what made them start the season the same weekend as the return of F1 after their summer break?

After the MotoGP at Silverstone last weekend, this weekend just looked like 'after the Lord Mayor's Show'.
Alex Langheck is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Sep 2019, 19:45 (Ref:3925278)   #618
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 8,746
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Langheck View Post
I'm fully convinced; that it WASN'T. Another in a long list of errors by the ACO regarding 'their' championship. Stick to running Le Mans, and leave the WEC to professionals.

And what made them start the season the same weekend as the return of F1 after their summer break?

After the MotoGP at Silverstone last weekend, this weekend just looked like 'after the Lord Mayor's Show'.
The ACO/WEC thinks extremely highly of itself. Let's be honest, it's why it insists on going to F1 facilities and Grade 1 tracks even when it really should go elsewhere. We've seen that changed with Sebring, but it's still thinking it's a much higher status than it really is.

They don't seem concerned with clashes with Formula E (which steals half the grid of drivers), with Formula 1 (which is far more popular) or with IMSA (which just creates an awkward clash for drivers, and ruins it for fans). WEC is the most important. It's an FIA World Championship. Why couldn't it clash with F1, MotoGP, FE and IMSA?

I love WEC. But the management could do with being taken down a peg or two.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2019, 10:55 (Ref:3925370)   #619
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,286
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
In these days, I always look at ELMS as the ultimate spec series galore but in honesty with the grids the way they are now there's just one chassis less in it than at WEC

WEC Chassis Models & Chassis Manufacturers
LMP1: Toyota TS050, Oreca R13, Ginetta G60
LMP2: Oreca 07, Dallara P217
LMGTE-PRO: Ferrari 488, Porsche 911, Aston Martin Vantage
LMGTE-AM: Ferrari 488, Porsche 911, Aston Martin Vantage
= 8 unique chassis, 7 unique manufacturers (in a field of 30 plus)

WEC Engine Models & Engine Manufacturers
LMP1: Toyota, Zytek, AER
LMP2: Zytek
LMGTE-PRO: Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin
LMGTE-AM: Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin
= 7 unique engine, 6 unique manufacturers (in a field of 30 plus)

ELMS Chassis Models & Chassis Manufacturers
LMP2: Oreca 07, Dallara P217, Onroak JSP217
LMP3: Onroak JSP3, Norma M30 (both with Oreca components and service)
LMGTE-AM: Ferrari 488, Porsche 911
= 7 unique chassis, 6 unique manufacturers (in a field of 40 plus)

ELMS Engine Models & Engine Manufacturers
LMP2: Zytek
LMP3: Nissan-Oreca-Katech-Zytek-whatever
LMGTE-AM: Ferrari, Porsche
= 4 unique engines, 3 unique manufacturers (in a field of 40 plus)

Meanwhile the so-called worst race ever at Donington 2012 had 8 unique chassis models and 5 engines in a field of 13 entries

Last edited by Chiana; 2 Sep 2019 at 11:05.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2019, 12:19 (Ref:3925387)   #620
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,978
S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!S griffin has a real shot at the championship!
ELMS won't attract the interest WEC is attracting. I think WEC needs to make sure the 2021 rules. I miss some of the old manufacturers you used to get in WEC. We're lucky we have a few loyal ones. ELMS never tried to compare itself to WEC in that regard. It was always going to struggle for really big numbers
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2019, 20:24 (Ref:3925462)   #621
gert
Veteran
 
gert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Belgium
Antwerp
Posts: 4,263
gert has a real shot at the podium!gert has a real shot at the podium!gert has a real shot at the podium!gert has a real shot at the podium!gert has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiana View Post
Onroak JSP217
Frankly, I'm intrigued why you insist on calling it Onroak JSP217 or simply Onroak in all of your posts while everybody else including its constructor is calling it a Ligier JSP217.
gert is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2019, 20:52 (Ref:3925469)   #622
Chiana
Veteran
 
Chiana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 10,286
Chiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameChiana will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by gert View Post
Frankly, I'm intrigued why you insist on calling it Onroak JSP217 or simply Onroak in all of your posts while everybody else including its constructor is calling it a Ligier JSP217.
Onroak/Oak is the actual constructor, Ligier just the rebranded title. I always prefer to call the cars by what they actually are, especially if the rebranded name is an actual road car manufacturer - like Ligier - that's dubbed to get all the glory even if they have very little to do with the products

So of the current prototype bunch for example

Ligier JSP217 = Onroak JSP217
Alpine whatever = Oreca 07
Aurus whatever = Oreca 07
Rebellion R13 = Oreca R13 (calling it Rebellion is okayish thou since not road car manufacturer )
SMP BR1 = Dallara BR1 (calling it SMP is/was okayish thou since not road car manufacturer)
"Mazda DPi" = Riley MK30 Mazda
"Cadillac DPi" = Dallara P217 Cadillac
"Acura DPi" = Oreca 07 Acura
"Nissan DPi" = Onroak JSP217 (nothing Nissan except copypasted GT3 engine so I refuse even partial OEM recognizition)

Kolles CLM is a big ??? since I don't know what to make of the old Adess-Kodewa-Praga mess so you might just as well refer to it as what it is called by the team, and it's not like they're using some rebranded car manufacturer title anyway so it's ok

Last edited by Chiana; 2 Sep 2019 at 21:05.
Chiana is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Sep 2019, 21:55 (Ref:3925475)   #623
Adam43
14th
20KPINAL
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 33,387
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
It’s times like this I remember the fantastic pole lap Blundell did at Le Mans 1990 in the Lola R90CK. Although the TWR won in the end with their XJR-12. However it reminded of Lola’s four wins in the 1960s.
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set and Go Out and Do Something Less Boring Instead?
Quote
Old 3 Sep 2019, 02:13 (Ref:3925505)   #624
broadrun96
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
United States
Posts: 5,049
broadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebroadrun96 will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiana View Post
Onroak/Oak is the actual constructor, Ligier just the rebranded title. I always prefer to call the cars by what they actually are, especially if the rebranded name is an actual road car manufacturer - like Ligier - that's dubbed to get all the glory even if they have very little to do with the products

So of the current prototype bunch for example

Ligier JSP217 = Onroak JSP217
Alpine whatever = Oreca 07
Aurus whatever = Oreca 07
Rebellion R13 = Oreca R13 (calling it Rebellion is okayish thou since not road car manufacturer )
SMP BR1 = Dallara BR1 (calling it SMP is/was okayish thou since not road car manufacturer)
"Mazda DPi" = Riley MK30 Mazda
"Cadillac DPi" = Dallara P217 Cadillac
"Acura DPi" = Oreca 07 Acura
"Nissan DPi" = Onroak JSP217 (nothing Nissan except copypasted GT3 engine so I refuse even partial OEM recognizition)

Kolles CLM is a big ??? since I don't know what to make of the old Adess-Kodewa-Praga mess so you might just as well refer to it as what it is called by the team, and it's not like they're using some rebranded car manufacturer title anyway so it's ok
If you'd like to be pedantic, it's a Multimatic for the chassis for the Mazda. Whether YOU like it or not that's the manufacturer and owners now, they didn't buy the rights they bought everything AND did the development to make the chassis not a dog. Please give credit to those who have done work instead of holding a fake judgemental position.
broadrun96 is online now  
__________________
It was fun while it lasted, have enjoyed the people I've met but the measuring contests and arguments over who's more insider and who's smarter has just made it not worth the effort any longer. It should be fun, not work and it's just work to find actual information.
Quote
Old 3 Sep 2019, 06:14 (Ref:3925519)   #625
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 8,746
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
It's a Ligier. It was born a Ligier and will always be a Ligier. I understand being miffed about putting badges on already branded things (Alpine ORECA).

The Cadillac DPi is a Cadillac DPi. It isn't a Dallara P217 with a Cadillac engine. A car is more than just the chassis it is built on, otherwise the DeltaWing is an AMR One. Which is ridiculous.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Sep 2019, 12:18 (Ref:3925578)   #626
Mike E
Veteran
 
Mike E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location:
Leeds
Posts: 2,474
Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!Mike E is going for a new world record!
Rebellion Rules Out Second Car for Full Season

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...r-full-season/
Mike E is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2019, 00:37 (Ref:3926283)   #627
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 14,766
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
It's a Ligier. It was born a Ligier and will always be a Ligier. I understand being miffed about putting badges on already branded things (Alpine ORECA).

The Cadillac DPi is a Cadillac DPi. It isn't a Dallara P217 with a Cadillac engine. A car is more than just the chassis it is built on, otherwise the DeltaWing is an AMR One. Which is ridiculous.
I don't know, I would call the Caddys Dallara p2's. Changing the lights and engine doesn't make it a Cadillac chassis, do you agree? I think the car is labeled as a Cadillac, but the technical term for the chassis is a Dallara. I don't think it matters much unless the constructors get into an argument over who deserves the credentials?
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2019, 14:08 (Ref:3926358)   #628
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 8,746
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I don't think a car is defined by its chassis. Otherwise the DeltaWing is an Aston Martin. The last Pescarolo is an Aston Martin. The Caddy had a rework of lights, rims, wheel covers, cooling and intakes. I think that's enough to call it a Caddy.

They didn't just take a Dallara and put a sticker on it. Which is, literally, what happened with the ORECA LMP2. Which is explicitly stated what was not allowed to happen as well.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2019, 18:39 (Ref:3926405)   #629
TF110
Veteran
 
TF110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
United States
Posts: 14,766
TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!TF110 is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
I don't think a car is defined by its chassis. Otherwise the DeltaWing is an Aston Martin. The last Pescarolo is an Aston Martin. The Caddy had a rework of lights, rims, wheel covers, cooling and intakes. I think that's enough to call it a Caddy.

They didn't just take a Dallara and put a sticker on it. Which is, literally, what happened with the ORECA LMP2. Which is explicitly stated what was not allowed to happen as well.
But they don't own the 'right' to the chassis design or its construction or its repurposing like the examples you give. It's not changed in any way that is considered unique to Cadillac, is it? Redone body panels and engine are big enough to make it look like a different car but I think it's the naming that is Chiana's point.
TF110 is offline  
Quote
Old 7 Sep 2019, 18:43 (Ref:3926406)   #630
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 8,746
Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!Akrapovic is the undisputed Champion of the World!
You and I are good at going in circles

Quote:
It's not changed in any way that is considered unique to Cadillac, is it?
The chassis? No. The car? Yes, absolutely. It has significant engineering input into it. The Alpine has literally nothing. Beyond the guy who engraved the chassis plate lol. And Aurus has some stickers over the headlights.
Akrapovic is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2019 VASC Silly Season (WITH POLL) peckstar Australasian Touring Cars. 1777 14 Sep 2019 00:28
[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season hondafan37 ACO Regulated Series 2143 11 Jun 2019 19:03
[Driver] 2019 F1 Silly Season Skam85 Formula One 754 23 Jan 2019 09:33
Sebring 12H + WEC 2019 Coach Ep Marshals Forum 10 7 Nov 2018 14:37
WEC round 8: Six Hours of Bahrain---WEC season finale. chernaudi ACO Regulated Series 212 23 Nov 2015 21:17


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:12.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.