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Old 28 Aug 2019, 10:44 (Ref:3924478)   #6616
Chiana
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Do not forget that they also used to have a "safeguard" half a second margin.

-- The 0.25 percent advantage, which is equivalent to half a second at Le Mans. Vasselon described the half-second as "a kind of safeguard" that reflected Toyota's perceived potential of the privateer cars for last year's race. "Now we do not need the safeguard; now we are down to zero," he said.

Anyway, surely in a conventional BoP formula, the hybrid advantage will always be absolute zero (unless AMR doesn't show up for the first year, then I reckon it'll get political bop boosts against the privateers)
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Old 29 Aug 2019, 18:27 (Ref:3924712)   #6617
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Do not forget that they also used to have a "safeguard" half a second margin.

-- The 0.25 percent advantage, which is equivalent to half a second at Le Mans. Vasselon described the half-second as "a kind of safeguard" that reflected Toyota's perceived potential of the privateer cars for last year's race. "Now we do not need the safeguard; now we are down to zero," he said.

Anyway, surely in a conventional BoP formula, the hybrid advantage will always be absolute zero (unless AMR doesn't show up for the first year, then I reckon it'll get political bop boosts against the privateers)
Which wasn't even needed because none of them were within a second, but come 2019's LM24 and it was an entirely different story. I don't expect anything to change in Toyota being the fastest but I do think it will be as close as the last round of qualifying.
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Old 29 Aug 2019, 19:27 (Ref:3924720)   #6618
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Thing is (and I think most of us will agree) that aside from one or two details, that's how it should've been all a long (referring to LM '19) for the whole WEC season last year. If Toyota hadn't been gifted the refueling and stint length advantage for LM, things might have been closer. Even then, it was closer between factory and privateer than it was in forever, 2006 excluded, where the winning Audi was 4 laps ahead of the second place Pescarolo.
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Old 1 Sep 2019, 19:22 (Ref:3925270)   #6619
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helgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
With 100 kg (almost 10%) more weight and 50% (?) less fuel they are still a way faster than Oreca. Just shows perfectly the difference between something based on engineering experience grown in terms of sheer competition and something based on "frozen" regs relaxing atmosphere of LMP2 golden goose. I'm amazed by one single question: where do TMG get their motivation to compete against these engineer-interest-less moneymakers. I don't see any fresh ideas from Oreca - they just wait for other EOT-SHMEOT-BOP dispensation. And TMG find themselves in stupid situation when almost nobody cares about their real success with beating records and so on.
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Old 1 Sep 2019, 19:36 (Ref:3925274)   #6620
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Apart from the obvious advantages of the hybrid (power, torque, instant torque, 4wd, immunity from pit lane regulations), the TS050 gets constant heavy updates. This years car has significant aero changes from last years. So even if they did manage to equalise how fast Toyota was last year to the Rebellion, the Rebellion has remained static since it's a customer car, and the Toyota has moved on yet again.

Just look at the nose. It's been raised and it now has the vents through it. So the floor is now more effective since the dirty air is being funnelled away. You just can't get that level of aero detail from a customer car. Look at the detail with the mirrors. That's something a customer team doesn't have time to work on.

You need a lot more than 100kg and less fuel to undo all of the hard work Toyota puts in.
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Old 1 Sep 2019, 20:14 (Ref:3925285)   #6621
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Rebellion doesn't have money for a second car let alone more development. On top of that, lmp1 is on the way out after this season so really, what's the use when you can just rely on penalties applied to Toyota to get you close(r)? If they keep using the car for the first year of hypercar/lmp1 next season, it'll be a lot faster than the new cars by pure regulation. So they can get slowed and hope for a chance they know their car better than a new team. I think Ginetta has a similar mindset. Toyota used the same style car for 3 years so I think an update was due anyway and why not go all-out with the last year of the TS050?
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Old 2 Sep 2019, 01:13 (Ref:3925305)   #6622
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Rebellion doesn't have money for a second car let alone more development. On top of that, lmp1 is on the way out after this season so really, what's the use when you can just rely on penalties applied to Toyota to get you close(r)? If they keep using the car for the first year of hypercar/lmp1 next season, it'll be a lot faster than the new cars by pure regulation. So they can get slowed and hope for a chance they know their car better than a new team. I think Ginetta has a similar mindset. Toyota used the same style car for 3 years so I think an update was due anyway and why not go all-out with the last year of the TS050?

I approve of this comment, though it's a bit of a hard pill to swallow given that we want to see things tighter up front. But we won't get that until we get another OEM factory team, and that won't happen until the new rules are phased in for LMP1.

Not to mention, the new TS050, at least if you ask me, just looks flat out cool.
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 19:47 (Ref:3926981)   #6623
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MaskedRacer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridMaskedRacer should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Anybody have a fake or pretend spotter guide (sideways) design of a Toyota GR Super Sport hypercar in the Gazoo racing livery?
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Old 9 Sep 2019, 22:10 (Ref:3927009)   #6624
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You need a lot more than 100kg and less fuel to undo all of the hard work Toyota puts in.
What's the point of restricting the Toyota anyway? Toyota are the best team: well resourced, skilled engineers, so why shouldn't they just win all the time?

Of course, for example, in WRC, there are other good teams (Citroen, Ford, Hyundai) so Toyota don't win all the time there.

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I'm amazed by one single question: where do TMG get their motivation to compete against these engineer-interest-less moneymakers.
Well Toyoda-san didn't want TMG to do the WRC program, for whatever reason (though do they do the aero and engines for Makinnen's team?), so the engineers have no choice but to work on tweaking the TS050! There isn't an alternative program for them to think about!

Tweaking things is what engineers do after all.

As for motivation... Well the desire to win-at-all-costs and find the unfair advantage can only be tested against other teams of the same, or higher, calibre... It could be that TMG are just plodding along with solid, middle-of-the-road designs like they had in F1.

Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 9 Sep 2019 at 22:15.
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Old 10 Sep 2019, 00:08 (Ref:3927025)   #6625
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It also bears remembering that the Audi R8 was built to take on the likes of Toyota, Mercedes, and BMW at LM in 2000, but at the end of '99 they all left basically for F1. Now you probably get a hint of how TMG feels right now to be just like Audi Sport almost 20 years ago
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Old 10 Sep 2019, 01:27 (Ref:3927033)   #6626
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hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridhondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Anybody have a fake or pretend spotter guide (sideways) design of a Toyota GR Super Sport hypercar in the Gazoo racing livery?




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Old 10 Sep 2019, 08:57 (Ref:3927094)   #6627
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Now it remains to be seen if Toyota will keep their advantage throughout. Still a long way to go
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