[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Be honest, if the car hadn't been a shitbox he'd have been a long way down the queue of drivers.

They needed each other.

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Except when he signed nobody could have imagined how much of a shed it would be

[midgetman]

I agree it's even worse than expected. However there wasn't exactly a deep pool of talent sniffing round was there?

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[S griffin]

And let’s face it Russell has made good use of it when he can

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And let’s face it Russell has made good use of it when he can

I'd echo that, Russell gas done a superb job considering.

[P38 in workshop]

At this point,in late September,the big decisions about next year's car will have been made and some of the tooling will be on the verge of completion.We are given to understand that the fundamental problem that can't be eradicated from the current car was identified early in the season.It would be reasonable to assume this aspect of the car will be vice free-whatever it actually was-and have to hope that the design team has not been deflected from spotting the avenues of development the front-runners have been pursuing over the season.


i agree that George Russell has done a sterling job this year and would like to see him in a car worthy of his abilities next season.The thing is I have a nagging doubt that the design team behind several years of mediocre cars can actually come up with one.Even if one of the luminaries on gardening leave is destined to go to Grove,it might be a bit late to do much for 2020 and the sponsors might not have the patience to hang around indefinitely.

[Armco Bender]

Pity they couldn't buy this years Mercedes chassis for next year.

[S griffin]

I just hope that by starting next season's car early they can make a step forward with the car

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Pity they couldn't buy this years Mercedes chassis for next year.

They wouldn't buy a chassis, they can't even work out that they need a gearbox. Their main priority is not to be competitive, it is just to take as much money out of the sport while participating.

I wonder how much performance the gearbox alone costs them?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by wnut

They wouldn't buy a chassis, they can't even work out that they need a gearbox. Their main priority is not to be competitive, it is just to take as much money out of the sport while participating.

I wonder how much performance the gearbox alone costs them?

If it included the Mercedes rear end as well.. probably quite a lot..

[djr81]

Originally Posted by wnut

They wouldn't buy a chassis, they can't even work out that they need a gearbox. Their main priority is not to be competitive, it is just to take as much money out of the sport while participating.

I wonder how much performance the gearbox alone costs them?

The F1 team lost 16.8 million pounds in the first half of this year, so they arent taking money out of the sport, they are losing it hand over fist.

There is a difference between wanting something and being able to afford it. Bit like the collection of exotic cars I dont have.

[chillibowl]

Losses are often reported for accounting purposes and i suspect every team runs at a loss as far as the tax man is concerned.

Their ability to allocate resources to the the team budget would be the more relevant number for our purposes...and/or the number of jobs Williams kept in house by buying more parts from Merc right?

I know i rant a lot about the money stuff but i think we give Williams too hard a time for living under a reasonable budget. It is the teams at the top changing the optics of this all.

[S griffin]

McLaren are starting to come good again this season. I only hope Williams can somehow make progress towards to the front again in time

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by S griffin

McLaren are starting to come good again this season. I only hope Williams can somehow make progress towards to the front again in time

At the expense of who?
Not all teams can be at the front - there will always need to be a midfield and back-markers.

Every time I hear/read someone state they would like to see a certain team doing better, I wonder who they also would like to see doing worse?

If we accept the current team order, does that mean you want to see Haas at the back?
If we assume your comment puts them roughly level with McLaren, I take it you would also be happy for Renault to be in the second half of the field?

[midgetman]

At the expense of no one.

It would be good to see all teams at the front, taking their turn to win. That's racing. There have to be winners and losers, but there don't have to be permanent winners and losers.

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[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by midgetman

At the expense of no one.

It would be good to see all teams at the front, taking their turn to win. That's racing. There have to be winners and losers, but there don't have to be permanent winners and losers.

There would still be a team that finished 10th in the constructors' table. They would permanently be the losers that season.

I agree that it is good to see variety, but I also feel that it should be accepted that some teams have done a better job, and so should be rewarded.
But that also accepts that some teams have done a worse job, and deserve to lose.

[S griffin]

I guess it doesn’t feel right to have a team like Williams so far down. But then again it also happened to teams like Lotus, Tyrrell and Brabham

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by midgetman

At the expense of no one.

Yes...

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

There would still be a team that finished 10th in the constructors' table.

... and Yes.

From my perspective the problem is when you have a team that does nothing but consistently finish last (excluding retirements) or nearly so. Speaking about Williams specifically, ideally and at a minimum, they need to not be so far off the pace. I think that speaks to midgetman's comment.

And as crmalcom says... someone is always going to be last. But as much as we want variety at the front (on the podium) I think it's healthy for some variety at the tail end as well.

My impression is that Williams is just hanging on until 2021. I have been a proponent of the size of Williams (funding and maybe staff) might be a goal of where the sport should be. But 2021 could be a major step forward, but still leave Williams in the dust??? But who knows, how the sport is setup to be run (funding, etc.) might wake up Williams.

Richard

[wnut]

Really wish Paddy Lowe would write a tell all.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

There would still be a team that finished 10th in the constructors' table. They would permanently be the losers that season.

I agree that it is good to see variety, but I also feel that it should be accepted that some teams have done a better job, and so should be rewarded.
But that also accepts that some teams have done a worse job, and deserve to lose.

But there is a difference between finishing tenth in the constructors championship on one point and finishing with a half decent tally.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Yes...


... and Yes.

From my perspective the problem is when you have a team that does nothing but consistently finish last (excluding retirements) or nearly so. Speaking about Williams specifically, ideally and at a minimum, they need to not be so far off the pace. I think that speaks to midgetman's comment.

And as crmalcom says... someone is always going to be last. But as much as we want variety at the front (on the podium) I think it's healthy for some variety at the tail end as well.

My impression is that Williams is just hanging on until 2021. I have been a proponent of the size of Williams (funding and maybe staff) might be a goal of where the sport should be. But 2021 could be a major step forward, but still leave Williams in the dust??? But who knows, how the sport is setup to be run (funding, etc.) might wake up Williams.

Richard

They do certainly appear to be hanging on till 2021.

I guess the other question comes down to how well do you fund the minnows? Used to be it didnt matter that they lost a team ever other year because the start up costs were not the impossible hurdle they are now, now the teams anywhere near as large as they are now.

But there are only ten teams with no new ones on the horizon and so the business model can not allow tenth place to go broke. Surely Ferrari/MB/RedBull can scrape by on a few million less each?

[djinvicta]

Originally Posted by wnut

Really wish Paddy Lowe would write a tell all.

Sorry.. but Mercedes got rid of him to Williams. Says it all really.
A waste of money....Nothing to tell.
And then Williams realised they got a cheaper engine if they took him..

[S griffin]

Merc didn’t need him as they had enough tech people like Costa, although he’s on his way out now

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

Sorry.. but Mercedes got rid of him to Williams. Says it all really.
A waste of money....Nothing to tell.
And then Williams realised they got a cheaper engine if they took him..

Is this fact or fiction?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

Sorry.. but Mercedes got rid of him to Williams. Says it all really.
A waste of money....Nothing to tell.
And then Williams realised they got a cheaper engine if they took him..

Just add it to the list of Mansell, Hill, Newey, Coughlan, Sam Michael, Smedley, Symonds, Thiessen(BMW) and a host of others, all of whom had no idea of what they were doing.

[GT6]

Another bad day for Williams, not sure what they can do about it but they must bounce back soon.