How to fix F1?

[chillibowl]

Well that's a very interesting idea!

At its heart it could essentially resolve many of issues a budget cap seeks to resolve.

I imagine that prize money would then be allocated based on who has the most points left by seasons end?

[coppice]

In all the detail - much of which is insightful and clever - of what we need to fix F1 ,assuming it needs a fix at all , we have concentrated on inputs more than outcomes . So what do we want that we don't have now ?



My shopping list is this , with some inputs suggested to make it happen-


- no more than 15 GPs a year , so each is a real occasion



- venues - the ones whose fans love F1 , and show their love by coming to watch it live, or following every race on TV . So goodbye Bahrain, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi and hello Finland , Holland and Sweden (or S Africa, Argentina or New Zealand )



- grid - 28/30 cars


- race - 90-120 minutes (as now , a little longer maybe ) ; no pits stops except for repairs


- tyres - free in practice , one set for race(plus wets/inters ) . Overtaking on track , not in pits



- engines - noisy enough to be borderline frightening for newcomers,and different sounding engines . Largish NA but with rev limit of 15kish to keep costs sane ; number of cylinders free



- gearbox- sequential(so one can hear downchanges better than the lightning quick changes now) Probably a one size fits all 'box - we love different engines but nobody cares about gearbox differences



- aero - enough to stop car taking off, but not enough for it to be easy to drive , and certainly insufficient to prevent big slides being the norm . Probably more from ground effect - but whatever is needed to enable close running



- braking - outbraking far more feasible than now - so reliable , but inefficient enough to increase braking distances by 50 % or more



- light touch rules - no penalties except for cheating and intentional , not accidental contact

[Armco Bender]

Best post ever,make coppice the head of F1 immediately..

[Aysedasi]

Yep, works for me.....

[EffectiveSprinkles]

In my posts I was looking for outcomes that might possibly be somewhat realistic but it seems I was the only one.

[ASCII Man]

Keep patting yourself on the back.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Welcome to my igore list, enjoy the conversation with the other two people on there.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Rather than try and equalise the field with budget caps, which some are sceptical about the policing of, I would go another route and change the points system.

Interesting idea. My gut tells me it would not create the desired outcome. Recent example is grid penalties for PU replacement. That is a similar system (to a degree) in that it is meant to act as a corrective behavior for teams. Basically build in longevity or you will feel pain.

So in this new points scale a large subset of fans will be continuously angry that the best cars and drivers are winning the races, but someone else is going to win the championship. They will just not care about the desired effect of this setup.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by coppice

In all the detail - much of which is insightful and clever - of what we need to fix F1 ,assuming it needs a fix at all , we have concentrated on inputs more than outcomes .

I like a few of these such as the comments about braking distance, fewer races and an enjoyable fan experience, but while you say prior ideas focus on inputs and not outcome, I would counter that by saying you can’t legislate outcomes. Otherwise maybe we just need one rule that says “The racing must be entertaining.” That is a mission statement not a rule book. It is not a practical solution. The only thing you can do is drive inputs in the hope it gets a desired outcome. Listing desired outcomes is easy. How to get there is the hard part. We all want to be wealthy, healthy, enjoy world peace and watch good racing.

I say one of the reason the rules are so tight today is that they try (tried) to be open and then hope/expect development will go in particular directions (pleasing to look at or better yet.. “racy”, etc.), but the path to performance frequently results in ugly, but fast. Those who design the cars are paid for one outcome... performance. The regulations that created the ugly noses and subsequent tightening that corrected that is a good example. Now we are decades into rules built to exclude undesirable outcomes. But this path of exclusion has taken us to a bad place. It’s time for a full rethink, but at the same time, we can’t ignore our past and how we got where we are today.

Richard

[coppice]

True -but it is worth while at least probing into exactly what people want.



This one wants, in a nutshell, healthy grids of fast and noisy cars which look ,and are , difficult to drive but which , because of reduced aero and poorer brakes , can overtake. And they'll have to ,as pit stops and tyres with the durability of toilet roll are history .I cannot be alone in thinking that a set of tyres which is discarded in less time than it takes me to drink a mug of tea is absurd ?



May I add the prospect of 1 , 2 or 3 car teams and customer cars too? I don't want 'the show ' or ,even all the players , to be the same for every race . I don't want bloody strategy, radio calls , asinine penalties and similar guff to take the place of the essence of good racing . Which is simply this - the car behind catches the one in front and goes for the move . Where will he try , and when ? Does it come off ? Who blinks first ? That is (or was) the mother lode, the DNA of the whole sport .

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by coppice

True -but it is worth while at least probing into exactly what people want.

Absolutely. The first step has to be to define the desired outcome. We as fans still struggle to coalesce around what that is, but I think there are things many agree on.

Richard

[EffectiveSprinkles]

I disagree, that's rather pointless. Most people seem to want things that are completely unrealistic in every way. This thread might as well be titled 'invent your own top racing class to rival F1' because most suggestions are completely irrelevant to F1's current reality.

[Peter Mallett]

Isn't that the problem?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

I disagree, that's rather pointless. Most people seem to want things that are completely unrealistic in every way. This thread might as well be titled 'invent your own top racing class to rival F1' because most suggestions are completely irrelevant to F1's current reality.

Well yes, that's what the thread is about. Your post was only somewhat realistic (as you put it) because it largely didn't change anything.

The threads meant to be for some crazy ideas. Not all are realistic, but I think everything is worth talking about in a topic as broad as this.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Isn't that the problem?

It's not F1's problem which is supposed to be the topic of conversation. It's literally the thread's question.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I disagree. It is enforceable. If the governing body chose to police it, it would be enforceable. Just ban the next three drivers (irrespective of who they are) that break the yellow flag rule for one GP or even make them start the next race with a 5 minute penalty and they'd soon start observing them. As I say, you have rules and you can either enforce them or not. The choice not to isn't the same as something being unenforceable.

They’re having a go.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...g-infringement

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

This thread might as well be titled 'invent your own top racing class to rival F1' because most suggestions are completely irrelevant to F1's current reality.

I think that you're missing the point - many posting don't agree with, like or accept F1's current reality. The cars in particular have become far too removed from what we think F1 should be.

Hence the thread title and the responses - "How to fix F1", offering a broad range of potential thoughts, from those that think what we have now would be OK with a few minor changes, to those who believe that major change is needed to fix F1.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

I disagree, that's rather pointless. Most people seem to want things that are completely unrealistic in every way. This thread might as well be titled 'invent your own top racing class to rival F1' because most suggestions are completely irrelevant to F1's current reality.

I actually am not sure what you think is pointless. I don’t think it is having a desired outcome to use when crafting the solution. It could be that there is a single solution that everyone can agree to. I agree that doesn’t exist. I do agree some ideas in this thread are fanciful or poorly thought out and are not likely feasible. What I am particular not sure about is how much change you think F1 can swallow. And is some of your criticism less about the quality of the ideas than about the likelihood they would ever be implemented? I think there are some very good ideas in this thread, but also think those in control are much too conservative in their approach to attempt them.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

They’re having a go.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...g-infringement

My opinion is only based upon what is in that article, but I say good on them.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Adam43

They’re having a go.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13...g-infringement

It's only taken since Bianchi's crash and until now to actually implement the rule that has existed since at least the 1960s. Because I am sure that there have been thousands of transgressions since that day.

[Akrapovic]

The Red Bull driver was already last on the provisional starting grid for the Sochi race, having taken new engine components and a fresh gearbox this weekend.

However, he has been given another three-place grid penalty and two licence penalty points for failing to slow down for yellow flags when Sergey Sirotkin spun his Williams in Q1.

Well, that'll show him!

[Peter Mallett]

Yeah, now he'll be starting from the back! Oh wait...................

[F1Guy]

Driver qualifies 19th on the grid. Changes gearbox, receives a 5 place grid place penalty, but starts from 15th on the grid.

Yep, I'm not confused at all.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

It's not F1's problem which is supposed to be the topic of conversation. It's literally the thread's question.

I've been following this thread avidly, having read with interest the various suggestions and there is nothing wrong with the thread's question.

So far the suggestion that resonates most afaic, is coppice's, though I would have a 17 race season rather than 15.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I think that you're missing the point - many posting don't agree with, like or accept F1's current reality. The cars in particular have become far too removed from what we think F1 should be.

I don't think that's true. Everybody wants cars that are fast, look good and can race each other hard for the entire duration of the race. Including F1 itself. But just saying that is a meaningless statement. The problem is that people ask for the impossible and then complain they're not getting it. A large part of F1's reality is simply reality and unless you can come up with a way to change the laws of physics that's not going to change.