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Old 13 May 2007, 22:24 (Ref:1912660)   #1
bentimingstrut
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Will a bike engined hillclimb car ever win the British Hillclimb Championship?

Any thoughts?Over 2u
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Old 13 May 2007, 23:49 (Ref:1912699)   #2
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Can't see it happening in the next 5 years. There is a good point to this though. I think that the design of car and bike engines will become increasingly similar, with engines becoming higher revving and lighter through using bike engine technology. The reduction of the capacity of F1 engines will probably speed this trend eventually in lower branches of motorsport.
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Old 14 May 2007, 08:29 (Ref:1912922)   #3
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Originally Posted by bentimingstrut
Any thoughts?Over 2u




What about your thoughts ???


Over 2u
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Old 14 May 2007, 09:01 (Ref:1912943)   #4
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History Lesson

They already have!

1951 & 1952 - Ken Wharton in a Cooper-JAP Mk 4

In 1953 & 1954 he also used an ERA as well as the Cooper.

1955, 1956 & 1957 - Tony Marsh in a Cooper-JAP Mk 8

1958, 1959 & 1960 - David Boshier-Jones also in a Cooper-JAP

1961 - David Good in a Cooper-JAP

As for the current era there may be an outside chance if you consider the Powertek V8 in Trevor's OMS to be a 'bike engine'?

On Sunday at Harewood in the second wet run-off the bike engined cars were on the pace of the V8s up to Orchard then they fell behind on the blast up to Farmhouse and then the run up to Quarry.

Currently the attempts to either Turbocharge or Supercharge bike engines has not been successful, which isn't to say that they will continue to be so. However I suspect that they will still struggle to beat a good V8.

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Old 14 May 2007, 09:02 (Ref:1912946)   #5
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Cameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Already happened - David Boshier Jones & Tony Marsh in the fifities using Cooper Jap's. The JAP V-Twin was used in Brough Superiors etc
Can't remember the other champions that used Coopers in the fifties.
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Old 14 May 2007, 09:03 (Ref:1912948)   #6
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Cameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Whoops - Steve beat me!
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Old 14 May 2007, 09:15 (Ref:1912953)   #7
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Originally Posted by Cameron Winton
Whoops - Steve beat me!
Sorry about that Cameron, but I was always told a good beating was character building!

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Old 14 May 2007, 12:18 (Ref:1913111)   #8
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Cameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Ah Steve, I beat you to stating what kind of bike used the JAP engine.
Is Trevor's car the modern equivalent of John Bolster's Bloody Mary?
Two JAP's tied together?
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Old 14 May 2007, 13:15 (Ref:1913145)   #9
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Making some assumptions like the OP intended to write 'again' at the end of his subject line and that the rules don't change perhaps the discussion should be

'If you were looking to build a car to be competitive in the championship would you ever choose a bike engine?'

I think the answer is no. A competitive car needs a lot of downforce, therefore it needs a lot of power. A Hayabusa and a Cosworth XB have roughly equal cylinder capacities but the XB has much larger valves and a larger bore. That means it can flow more air and therefore make more power. And there is not a lot you can do to the bike engine to change that.

There are some XB internal photos at http://www.lolachampcar.com/Cosworth%20XB.htm with some Busa parts for comparison.

And of course the XB is not exactly modern. It is though very practical.

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Old 14 May 2007, 13:41 (Ref:1913178)   #10
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Gould

Maybe my post should have read "Can the championship now be won without using a Gould chasis?"
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Old 14 May 2007, 14:26 (Ref:1913220)   #11
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Cameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCameron Winton should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Adding to this, back in the fifities, the Cooper JAP had a significant power to Weight advantage over what was competing with conventional engines. Nowadays, because of the huge changes in different technologies, the ball game is completely different
So, my answer is no - Unless the rules change (Safety?)
As far as Gould's are concerned - Paul is probably more familiar with what they have done but from 1st impressions, will someone spend the money to develop a more aero-efficient or lighter XB powered car?
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Old 14 May 2007, 17:05 (Ref:1913338)   #12
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Predatory Comments

I suspect that if you spent the equivalent amount of money that you would need to purchase a brand new Gould Chassis plus sequential box and NME V8 then you may well be able to match the current performances - that is if you also had the talent of either Martin Groves or Scott Moran.

How about the 3 Litre Cosworth TJ V10 (which will have 900bhp and will run for 1200km between rebuilds) slotted into a Predator?



I think Paul Ranson hit the nail on the head with the comment 'If you were looking to build a car to be competitive in the championship would you ever choose a bike engine?' I suspect the answer would be NO assuming it was a money no object design.

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Old 16 May 2007, 06:02 (Ref:1914401)   #13
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I think the closest bike engined car to challenge the Goulds and Pilbeams could be Ian Scott's Megapin.With it's turbo charged Kawasaki,once sorted in this superb chassis,might just win the British Sprint Championship in the future .
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Old 16 May 2007, 07:42 (Ref:1914445)   #14
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Originally Posted by stevie m
I think the closest bike engined car to challenge the Goulds and Pilbeams could be Ian Scott's Megapin.With it's turbo charged Kawasaki,once sorted in this superb chassis,might just win the British Sprint Championship in the future .
I think Ian is a superb engineer. However I doubt very much that a Turbocharged Kawasaki could actually win either of the Speed Event National Championships, mind you I hope he proves me wrong!

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Old 16 May 2007, 10:06 (Ref:1914537)   #15
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Watch this space

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Originally Posted by Steve Wilkinson
I think Ian is a superb engineer. However I doubt very much that a Turbocharged Kawasaki could actually win either of the Speed Event National Championships, mind you I hope he proves me wrong!

I spoke to Ian a month or so ago at Teeside, but am sworn to secrecy until this year's machine breaks cover.

Re. a BEC wnning either of the chmpionships. Agree it's highly unlikley as things stand. Mind you if the courses used were a bit more twiddly favouring agility over grunt it could be a different story. Back in the days when the Coopers won, was this the case?
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