Driving Standards

[zefarelly]

A lot of people also seem to see testing as an unnecessary expense.

Not only does it help shake down a car, but shake down a driver!

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed.

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

A lot of people also seem to see testing as an unnecessary expense.

Not only does it help shake down a car, but shake down a driver!

These days that's roughly what you need to do to get the requisite licence for F1 = X hundred miles in an F1 car and here's your licence.

I do find it surprising that it is so easy to get a licence to race an old F1 car (or large engine sports car) when at the time you needed to have met some fairly demanding requirements.

Wasn't there a story that one historic competitor's first race was in her DFV F1 car?

[terence]

Certainly was-no one ever mentioned if said driver managed to get higher than second gear though.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

These days that's roughly what you need to do to get the requisite licence for F1 = X hundred miles in an F1 car and here's your licence.

I do find it surprising that it is so easy to get a licence to race an old F1 car (or large engine sports car) when at the time you needed to have met some fairly demanding requirements.

Wasn't there a story that one historic competitor's first race was in her DFV F1 car?

HER DFV ?? ?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

A lot of people also seem to see testing as an unnecessary expense.

Not only does it help shake down a car, but shake down a driver!

Agreed, 100%, Zef. In my case,the initial shakedown of the car proved that the car, and therefore by association me as the driver, could have proved to be, at a very minimum, a liability or worse still a danger to other competitors. Thankfully, we sorted that for the second testing session.

As I said before, during my probationary meetings, we had to complete, I seem to remember, 10 races without incident in order to upgrade to a National Licence. As part of that, and I don't know if this still applies to newbies, but we also had to get a signature from the CoC at the end of the meeting that confirmed that we had indeed behaved in the appropriate manner during both practice/qualifying and the race/s. And that was only done after he had had reports from the various marshals' points around the circuit. So, it was all taken pretty seriously back then.

I am also quite proud of the fact that after having taken part in probably more than 100 races, the sum total of damage to my car in those 5 years was a minor scratch on one of the rear wheel arches which I admit to doing when attempting to park the car under the old covered "car-ports" that the used to have in the paddock at Brands, and the tiniest of dimples on the front of the car caused when the brakes failed when attempting to stop at the tunnel to drive under Paddock Hill Bend; and both buffed out.

Says as more about my fellow competitors driving etiquette and standards than it does about my own skills.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Actually, didn't it used to be six races with a cross as a novice got you a club licence, then if you wanted to upgrade to a national licence you had to do six races with just a yellow plate to show you were upgrading? I can't remember exactly, but I do remember peeling off the cross and knowing I was half way there.

One of the questions on the ARKS test asks about overtaking, it's amazing how many people tick the wrong answer, that if your front wheels are ahead you are able to dive to the apex ignoring the car beside you. "But thats what [Insert BTCC hero here] does".

I can only go from 2001 when I obtained my first licence. Once I'd passed the HARDS test I got a National B licence and had a yellow cross on my back. After ten races or nine and a marshalling day (The races couldn't all be at the same track either) you removed the cross and could apply for a Nat A. A year of so after that they knocked it down to six races or five and a marshal day.
When I got my International C all I had to do was produce six time sheets showing me finishing races.

[henk4]

The black on yellow crosses have been abandoned on the continent since a German court ruling deemed them to be a sign of inadequacy, and you could not ask people to show that in public (or similar grounds...)

[terence]

I remember doing five races (pre sixty five car) providing the signed race result sheets and obtaining my international historic licence.Then it was proof of three races abroad before gaining my Int C.All in one year! But back then it wasn't very often you would see 10 or so GT40s or the like turn up for one race! Obviously a lot more disposable available these days-or more credit cards.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by terence

But back then it wasn't very often you would see 10 or so GT40s or the like turn up for one race! Obviously a lot more disposable available these days-or more credit cards.

just check how many GT40s at f.i. the Spa 6-hours are the real deal and not Gelsco and any other replica, so they are not historic cars and therefore are not bound by driving standards for historic racing....(just a thought)

[gt917]

Originally Posted by henk4

just check how many GT40s at f.i. the Spa 6-hours are the real deal and not Gelsco and any other replica, so they are not historic cars and therefore are not bound by driving standards for historic racing....(just a thought)

You are so wrong. Driving standards must improve for ALL types of racing.

Many of the continuation cars actually have more original parts on them than some of the so called historic ones.

It really does not make any difference what age the car is, but the drivers ability.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by gt917

You are so wrong. Driving standards must improve for ALL types of racing.

Many of the continuation cars actually have more original parts on them than some of the so called historic ones.

It really does not make any difference what age the car is, but the drivers ability.

I thought irony was something Brits would immediately recognise

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by henk4

I thought irony was something Brits would immediately recognise

[john ruston]

Pieter

I got it!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Pieter

I got it!

but you are special...

[zefarelly]

Clearly some Germanian blood in there somewhere

Originally Posted by henk4

I thought irony was something Brits would immediately recognise

[henk4]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Clearly some Germanian blood in there somewhere

irony, to imply that I am a German?

[terence]

Should that be ironian?
Anyhow-real or fake they should ALL be driven correctly Henk.
What are your avatar flag colours btw.

Intersting that there are five other subjects on 10ths with the same title!

[henk4]

Originally Posted by terence

Should that be ironian?
Anyhow-real or fake they should ALL be driven correctly

but the damage (financially) with fakes is much smaller than with real cars, which might be reflected in the driving style...beware of the 2014 Listers on the grids.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by henk4

but the damage (financially) with fakes is much smaller than with real cars,

How does that work then? If you have to repair a fake which is exactly the same as a real one then surely repair costs would be the same, or are labour costs for repairing real aluminium a lot more than fake aluminium assuming we are talking an ally car?

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

How does that work then? If you have to repair a fake which is exactly the same as a real one then surely repair costs would be the same, or are labour costs for repairing real aluminium a lot more than fake aluminium assuming we are talking an ally car?

total a real car and compare the loss of value with totaling a fake....

[Tim Falce]

That's fair enough on a total loss, which would be an extremely rare occurrence as most things are repairable although one point is, would you be bothered to repair a seriously damaged fake.

[henk4]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

That's fair enough on a total loss, which would be an extremely rare occurrence as most things are repairable although one point is, would you be bothered to repair a seriously damaged fake.

no you wouldn't but in the case of a fake Lister your loss is about 300K and with a real one may be close to 1 mln or more. I did see a GT40 (1033) being totaled last weekend, which was a real one (with a story attached though) and it was sold by Bonhams in 2012 for well over 2 mln US$. I very much doubt a Gelsco car would cost the same.

And mind you, if you damage a real car just often enough in modern racing (a car damaged and repaired in period is still an original car), the notion that this is an original racing car will become smaller and smaller and hence the value.

[GORDON STREETER]

I don't remember any sort of probation period when I first applied for a race licence almost 50 years ago, but after a long lay off when I went motocrossing I let the car licence lapse.
I decided to go circuit racing in the 80s and reapplied, after my first race at Mallory Park I actually won and dear old John Nichol who was the COC said "I shouldn't bother with the cross the next time out"

[Peter Mallett]

But then the advent of the BT was a long way off.